California's strict emissions..and trying to make big powa!

[Dutchbroracer]

Hey guys, long time lurker here. Started over on mg watching nicks (amd) and Chris' (lox) threads...and well I was bit in the ass with 5 zylinder syndrome. I now have a 200 20v. Seems like the majority of big hp guys are here, so here I am.

I'll get right to it. In my past built 1.8t's I had a friend that was a smog tech, as long as I could pass the sniffer, I could get it done. Well things have changed and that was some years ago. I now carry my ASE California smog license, and to be honest dirty smogging my car isn't worth the risk. I could get a $10,000 fine, license revoked and face possible jail time. No thanks.

So here's what I'm thinking, I keep factory style manifold. Go the k26 gtx30r/hta30r route . Keep it looking as factory as possible."the guy" smogging it I'm sure could over look little 30r and custom intake haha. I could get it to pass emissions with cats and 91 octane tune. After emissions test, test pipe and e85 to try and reach full potential of that turbo. I could then be pulled over and the officer can pop hood and more then likely not know what he is looking at. Or or or I pursue trying to register the car in Nevada (Pershing county, no smog) at my fiancés grandparents house. Then I can go all out on hanks manifold and 35r on e85. If I get pulled over and hood gets popped and he sees a big ass turbo, I can say its registered in Nevada where there is no smog. I heard California was catching on to this though. Any input or advice or experience with this would be awesome. I'd like to have a clear direction to go..sorry for long read.

Some pics



Painted tails and my pup Luke


The BW s475 in the bay for shits and giggles haha

[PRY4SNO]

Welcome!

Car looks really clean... whichever route you go I'm sure it'll be good :popcorn:

[Mcstiff]

How much WHP? Without knowing the goal hard to say what needs to happen. My thoughts, not sure what is feasible:

#1. I'd talk to Hank and see what, if any, the next step for/from a K26 with IROZMS compressor is. It sounds like the turbine/AR is limiting the max of the compressor so maybe there could be a hybrid K26/27 that would get you up into/past GTX30R levels.

#2. I'd think that a massaged AAN IM could pass as "stock" but if that is not good enough it seems that the cast aftermarket intakes can pass for stock.

#3. Same story for the exhaust, an RS2 is pretty good but I wonder if a cast Sport Quattro replica would pass.

#4. Stroker? I'm guessing it would be very difficult for them to detect that you have a tall deck block under the stock head.

As someone who has yet to, and hopefully will never, deal with CARB I'm not very sure on what they look for but I'd reference what audifreakjim has done to CARB-erate his 90.

[Dutchbroracer]

Welcome!

Car looks really clean... whichever route you go I'm sure it'll be good :popcorn:

Thanks! Pretty excited for the initial tear down. I'm a I5 virgin haha

[Dutchbroracer]

How much WHP? Without knowing the goal hard to say what needs to happen. My thoughts, not sure what is feasible:

#1. I'd talk to Hank and see what, if any, the next step for/from a K26 with IROZMS compressor is. It sounds like the turbine/AR is limiting the max of the compressor so maybe there could be a hybrid K26/27 that would get you up into/past GTX30R levels.

#2. I'd think that a massaged AAN IM could pass as "stock" but if that is not good enough it seems that the cast aftermarket intakes can pass for stock.

#3. Same story for the exhaust, an RS2 is pretty good but I wonder if a cast Sport Quattro replica would pass.

#4. Stroker? I'm guessing it would be very difficult for them to detect that you have a tall deck block under the stock head.

As someone who has yet to, and hopefully will never, deal with CARB I'm not very sure on what they look for but I'd reference what audifreakjim has done to CARB-erate his 90.

Hey thanks for the response. Well here is the thing. I'm technically "the guy" that will be smogging my car. At work we smog all used cars the dealership buys and sells. So I can smog it myself at work. I'm sure I could get it to pass the sniffer with hanks em and a 35r and a super safe 91 tune with cats of course....but here's my fear. I foolishly tend to "compare cars" late at night in desolate locations as its a huge scene here in the valley. I've had my hood popped by three highway patrols. Well as a result of them taking pictures of my engine bay, giving me a citation by mail 3 weeks later...they then tracked the smog tech that passed my 470whp a4 a month prior. he used to be my friend
So you can see my fear of being the tech that passes it and the idiot that gets pulled comparing cars.

#1- Motor will be pulled, dm forged rods. Depending on cylinder Conditon. Maybe bored and J.E pistons to boot. Stock crank, would like biggest cat cams available while staying hydraulic. High rate springs and and all other head support mods.

#2- intake manifold I was hoping to have hank work it over and maybe then look for a durable, black in color coating.

#3- exhaust manifold is the big concern. ATP offers a k26/35r. .82a/r I believe. But people say it will hit the EM. So maybe it could be spaced with a k26 flange and not hit the frame rail?

#4- I don't know anything about strokers for I5's I have some more research to do. Basically I want as much whp as I can realistically afford and get with a 35r type setup. Pushing for Nevada reg as well.

[Mcstiff]

Makes sense!

I'm not sure about the k26/35r clearance but spacing with a flange or quick spool valve works ;-) The 3b intake is workable, not sure of the power record on it, you can improve it a bit without major chopping.

The deal with the stroker is you find a Eurovan block and crank, modify them for mounting longitudinal (oil passages) and build like a 2.2. The end result is a 2.5 which would look like a 2.2 from above. Hank was running one before it blew at 40some psi and he started the 07k swap.

[Dutchbroracer]

Makes sense!

I'm not sure about the k26/35r clearance but spacing with a flange or quick spool valve works ;-) The 3b intake is workable, not sure of the power record on it, you can improve it a bit without major chopping.

The deal with the stroker is you find a Eurovan block and crank, modify them for mounting longitudinal (oil passages) and build like a 2.2. The end result is a 2.5 which would look like a 2.2 from above. Hank was running one before it blew at 40some psi and he started the 07k swap.

Qsv is a good idea! I worry about frame rail clearance as I believe I read nick saying he had to slightly clock his gt3076. I'd love tube manifold though.

Ok, now Im understanding the stroker...what size rods are used? 160mm? Hank made a lot of power
Are those somewhat typical results for that stroker setup? Yes I'm talking e85 numbers not 91 crap. Thanks for the info sir

[PRY4SNO]

A .3L bump in displacement should be good for 600rpm more power band.

[Mcstiff]

So you'll need 160mm rods, the correct pistons, a block w/machining for 20v use, and the standard stuff you'd want when building an engine.

Building a wolf in sheep's clothing is pretty interesting to me but not going to be cheap. Do you think the K26 GTx would be hidden enough to go unnoticed?

[Dutchbroracer]

So you'll need 160mm rods, the correct pistons, a block w/machining for 20v use, and the standard stuff you'd want when building an engine.

Building a wolf in sheep's clothing is pretty interesting to me but not going to be cheap. Do you think the K26 GTx would be hidden enough to go unnoticed?

I think I could get by with a k26 gtx, i could get 034's 4 inch TIP and make look passable...but then I ask myself...is a k26 gtx really going to make it a wolf? Don't get me wrong nicks car with his 30r seems pretty damn fast...but is a factory style EM going to let me max a gtx3076 out on e85? With proper supporting mods of course.

[chaloux]

Probably not but you CAN make over 400 whp on an rs2 evo.

[ringbearer]

Nevada reg. don't get pulled over often or they will figure you out...

You're in a tougher spot than most due to your career choice

[themagellan]

Hopefully you also get a different plate or at least repost those pictures without your registration plate details and what you are planning to do - Just adding to your paranoia ya' know?

Also whats your plan for engine management?

Good luck and I will be following your thread

[themagellan]

So you'll need 160mm rods, the correct pistons, a block w/machining for 20v use, and the standard stuff you'd want when building an engine.

Building a wolf in sheep's clothing is pretty interesting to me but not going to be cheap. Do you think the K26 GTx would be hidden enough to go unnoticed?

I think I could get by with a k26 gtx, i could get 034's 4 inch TIP and make look passable...but then I ask myself...is a k26 gtx really going to make it a wolf? Don't get me wrong nicks car with his 30r seems pretty damn fast...but is a factory style EM going to let me max a gtx3076 out on e85? With proper supporting mods of course.

Also - Nicks (AMD) car IS running a stock manifold and e85 - so yes and yes

[Dutchbroracer]

So you'll need 160mm rods, the correct pistons, a block w/machining for 20v use, and the standard stuff you'd want when building an engine.

Building a wolf in sheep's clothing is pretty interesting to me but not going to be cheap. Do you think the K26 GTx would be hidden enough to go unnoticed?

I think I could get by with a k26 gtx, i could get 034's 4 inch TIP and make look passable...but then I ask myself...is a k26 gtx really going to make it a wolf? Don't get me wrong nicks car with his 30r seems pretty damn fast...but is a factory style EM going to let me max a gtx3076 out on e85? With proper supporting mods of course.

Also - Nicks (AMD) car IS running a stock manifold and e85 - so yes and yes

Yeah but I don't believe nick is maxing his 30r setup out. He thinks his car is in the 400whp range and I would think a built motor (connecting rods at least) and e85 should make over 400whp....no?

[Dutchbroracer]

Hopefully you also get a different plate or at least repost those pictures without your registration plate details and what you are planning to do - Just adding to your paranoia ya' know?

Also whats your plan for engine management?

Good luck and I will be following your thread

I'll be on the vems train...I'm about a month out of calling mark for a pnp unit. Car already has different plates, good call though for future uploads

[loxxrider]

Thanks for posting here, this is going to be a fun build!

I'd say Nick is close to the limit of that stock manifold, but he is surely at somewhere around 400 whp + or -.

Good to see that S475 looks good in the engine bay since that might go in mine. Also, my dog's name is Luke too.

You keep switching from 30r to 35r... what do you really want? If you want 470 awhp like on your previous car, then you'll need the latter for sure. The 200 is so unsuspecting when it comes to racing that I think you'll have a much easier time of getting pulled over. Noone normal would believe that the car has more than 500 hp! I think a lot of OEM style heat shielding can go a long way to making it look stock under your hood. I had a friend who built a really nice 1.8t gti like that in Cali. I think Jim went that route at some point as well. I'm also thinking that just about any cast exhaust manifold will probably pass for stock as long as it doesn't have tuner markings on it. I think the stock intake manifold will be fine for your goals. You could have it modified without changing the look on the outside with a bit of effort if you find it is choking the motor up (but you wont find that). You mentioned you might coat some stuff... I'd say leave everything as dirty and stock looking as possible for the ultimate stealth

[chaloux]

Nick is on a .63 a/r hotside as well as me. I'm now running 24psi and my same turbo (but more built engine - cams, exh valves, gutted intake, and STR exhaust manifold), it feels fast as fook. But I'm running pump 94 and very conservative timing, and I'd guess I'm making 350whp +/- based on the dynos I've seen/run with Brady here on the forum. It pulls strong to 7k+ which I wasn't expecting. I should probably taper boost down a bit to 22psi up there. If I was on the .82 hotside I'd keep it going. When I take people for rides I usually get two "holy crap"s - one at 3.5-4k for boost onset (depending on the gear), and one at about 6k when it just keeps going.

[Dutchbroracer]

Thanks for posting here, this is going to be a fun build!

I'd say Nick is close to the limit of that stock manifold, but he is surely at somewhere around 400 whp + or -.

Good to see that S475 looks good in the engine bay since that might go in mine. Also, my dog's name is Luke too.

You keep switching from 30r to 35r... what do you really want? If you want 470 awhp like on your previous car, then you'll need the latter for sure. The 200 is so unsuspecting when it comes to racing that I think you'll have a much easier time of getting pulled over. Noone normal would believe that the car has more than 500 hp! I think a lot of OEM style heat shielding can go a long way to making it look stock under your hood. I had a friend who built a really nice 1.8t gti like that in Cali. I think Jim went that route at some point as well. I'm also thinking that just about any cast exhaust manifold will probably pass for stock as long as it doesn't have tuner markings on it. I think the stock intake manifold will be fine for your goals. You could have it modified without changing the look on the outside with a bit of effort if you find it is choking the motor up (but you wont find that). You mentioned you might coat some stuff... I'd say leave everything as dirty and stock looking as possible for the ultimate stealth

Well I guess I'm running short on options. The more I talk to you guys the more I realize a 30r might not get it done. 400-450whp isn't what I had in mind. Maybe I should smog the car in its current stock form (different shop and smog tech) then build it and worry about smog when it comes around 2 years from now. If I get pulled over just hope like hell he doesn't wanna see under the ol bonnet.

If you fellas had to make some educated guesses, what would it take to make somewhere in the 500 whp range on e85? Where is the limit for stock pistons?

[chaloux]

You could do it on a 30r on E85. Especially a gtx30r. But you'd be running a lot of boost. Like 40psi, probably maxing pretty much everything out. You could compromise a little and go 3576r, 35r hotside and 30r compressor, much more efficient and more flow at high boost/power and better spool than the straight 35r. But I'd say go for 35R, try to make it fit, and run a little less boost, 30-35?ish. Still, no matter how you look at it, any type of stock exhaust manifold is not ideal for a turbo this big.

[loxxrider]

I think it'd be a waste of time and slightly crazy to try to make 500 awhp on a 30r. A standard one just won't do it. You need something bigger to get that job done. 35r will get you a true 500whp.Pretty much anything with a 60mm ish compressor wheel will get you there.

Stock pistons are good for more power than that on a good tune. Hank broke a ringland on one at just over 600whp.

[Dutchbroracer]

You could do it on a 30r on E85. Especially a gtx30r. But you'd be running a lot of boost. Like 40psi, probably maxing pretty much everything out. You could compromise a little and go 3576r, 35r hotside and 30r compressor, much more efficient and more flow at high boost/power and better spool than the straight 35r. But I'd say go for 35R, try to make it fit, and run a little less boost, 30-35?ish. Still, no matter how you look at it, any type of stock exhaust manifold is not ideal for a turbo this big.

Yeah I agree with you, the stock EM doesn't seem like it would flow near enough for a 35r. After some more research I don't think a 30r will get me where I need to be. Im slowly being funneled into a tube mani 35r setup...
Another concern I have is the drivetrain...is the 016 up to 500whp on the regular? I already have a clutchnet red pressure plate (off amd's old 016 setup) and clutchnet's 6 puck disk. They claim it's good to 680 ft lbs, and after watching amd's launches..I'm sure it will hold. I don't however want to be breaking trannys all the time.

[audifreakjim]

You could do it on a 30r on E85. Especially a gtx30r. But you'd be running a lot of boost. Like 40psi, probably maxing pretty much everything out. You could compromise a little and go 3576r, 35r hotside and 30r compressor, much more efficient and more flow at high boost/power and better spool than the straight 35r. But I'd say go for 35R, try to make it fit, and run a little less boost, 30-35?ish. Still, no matter how you look at it, any type of stock exhaust manifold is not ideal for a turbo this big.

Yeah I agree with you, the stock EM doesn't seem like it would flow near enough for a 35r. After some more research I don't think a 30r will get me where I need to be. Im slowly being funneled into a tube mani 35r setup...
Another concern I have is the drivetrain...is the 016 up to 500whp on the regular? I already have a clutchnet red pressure plate (off amd's old 016 setup) and clutchnet's 6 puck disk. They claim it's good to 680 ft lbs, and after watching amd's launches..I'm sure it will hold. I don't however want to be breaking trannys all the time.

No, the 016 second gear will let go right about 430-450whp. Like clockwork. Hank and I have probably destroyed 5-6 between the two of us alone. The only real solution is to go 01E, which I would rebuild before I put it into the car with an updated 2nd gear collar and syncros. I have also locked up two of those.

[chaloux]

Damn it... I don't want to have to do an 01e swap. Maybe I'll keep the small hotside a little longer...

[Dutchbroracer]

You could do it on a 30r on E85. Especially a gtx30r. But you'd be running a lot of boost. Like 40psi, probably maxing pretty much everything out. You could compromise a little and go 3576r, 35r hotside and 30r compressor, much more efficient and more flow at high boost/power and better spool than the straight 35r. But I'd say go for 35R, try to make it fit, and run a little less boost, 30-35?ish. Still, no matter how you look at it, any type of stock exhaust manifold is not ideal for a turbo this big.

Yeah I agree with you, the stock EM doesn't seem like it would flow near enough for a 35r. After some more research I don't think a 30r will get me where I need to be. Im slowly being funneled into a tube mani 35r setup...
Another concern I have is the drivetrain...is the 016 up to 500whp on the regular? I already have a clutchnet red pressure plate (off amd's old 016 setup) and clutchnet's 6 puck disk. They claim it's good to 680 ft lbs, and after watching amd's launches..I'm sure it will hold. I don't however want to be breaking trannys all the time.

No, the 016 second gear will let go right about 430-450whp. Like clockwork. Hank and I have probably destroyed 5-6 between the two of us alone. The only real solution is to go 01E, which I would rebuild before I put it into the car with an updated 2nd gear collar and syncros. I have also locked up two of those.

No no no! Not what I wanted to hear. This is one of the reasons I left the b5 platform. As soon as I went e85 and started making 400+whp I was breaking DWR 5spds what felt like all the time. After the third one I went to a DJR 5 spd from a 2.8 v6. It lasted the longest at 6 months and held together for a 468whp dyno run..then broke 3 weeks later. Car was then parted out.
Jim how much power would you say you and hank were making during those transmission breaks? All second gear fails?