The Project Pad

Okay. So.
Roomates s4 is up and running and rocking. Engine was built and assembled by a local machine shop that knows what they're doing. The lifters were left out, not set in oil, for close to 4 months.
We've driven about 60 miles already, and they're still ticking. Should we pull these things out and try to soak them or something? What are we missing here?
Oil pressure is normal. Head is getting oil as far as I can tell? did not go to ARP main studs so I don't believe they could have crushed the oil check valve.

Pull them out, clean them out, then give them a good soaking in oil. that should take care of the issue. Just make sure you get any and all cleaner you use out of them first.

I pulled them apart in my 20v and cleaned out everything. I didnt soak them, and 30 seconds after starting, they were quiet. I know the 20v lifter are smaller, but still shoudnt be that much more diffecult.

I second pulling them apart. What happens to a lot of them over time is that junk gets caught in the check valve inside of them, so while their pistons should be incompressible, the dirty check valve lets oil seep out, causing a little play in the action of the cams moving and the valves opening (ticking noise).

I pulled all of mine apart with a set of modified vice-grips, soaked the parts in kerosene over and over until the kerosene came up clean, then reassembled in oil. About a minute after startup, I had a dead quiet 20v!

A tip for anyone cleaning lifters with solvent: add an ounce or two of motor oil into each quart of solvent.

If you clean the lifters in solvent and they completely dry before getting oiled by being in the engine, they could rust just from moisture in the air. If a little oil is added to the solvent, if the solvent evaporates the oil will be left behind, coating the lifters to prevent rust.

Try this for the lifters:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/9 ... -down.html

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVLo5OTYC4[/youtube]

So. I tried the idea that Alex had, and I believe the lifter tick to be gone, but there is still some terribly annoying kind of tick that doesn't sound like lifters. To the untrained ear it might sound like the lifter tick is still there.
Thinking it might be serpentine related or something.
At least I know we wont have a lifter collapse or break a valve. Just have an annoying as hell noise. Thanks for the help guys.

pilihp2 wrote:So. I tried the idea that Alex had, and I believe the lifter tick to be gone, but there is still some terribly annoying kind of tick that doesn't sound like lifters. To the untrained ear it might sound like the lifter tick is still there.
Thinking it might be serpentine related or something.
At least I know we wont have a lifter collapse or break a valve. Just have an annoying as hell noise. Thanks for the help guys.

Could be the serp belt hopping on and off the pulley by a rib, my V8 had that problem when the PS pump was slightly mis-aligned.

Is he running HD valve springs?

I'm not sure if it is normal, but I noticed an increase in cylinder head noise after I rebuilt my head with HD valve springs...

I wish. He's on stock springs and everything else. Only aftermarket is SS exhaust valves. Took a trip to vegas over the weekend and put about 1500 miles on it. If it was a bad lifter something would have broke by now. Going to go through the serpentine system with a fine toothed comb.

Okay dudes, I need help with this again. Originally we pulled every lifter out and did that trick Alex suggested. No luck. just installed BRAND NEW lifters and it STILL TICKS. It's definitely lifter tick.
I am feeling like the machine shop assembled something wrong and the lifters are not getting any oil. Does that sound possible at all? Check valve crushed?

remove the check valve and see if it is crushed and restricting flow.

....Which bolt exactly do you get access to the check valve at? i cant even remember.

IIRC, same galley as the oil pressure sensor near cylinder 2 on the driver's side.

Yes

Trying to get it looked at, roommate always spends his days off anywhere but the house so it makes it hard.
When replacing the lifters we saw zero damage to cam bearing surfaces and oil pressure is correct according to factory gauge. Is it possible it's just not getting ENOUGH pressure to pressurize the lifters but enough to keep the surfaces safe?
Whatever the culprit, this needs to be fixed. I cant stand the ticking. I don't even want to tune it for him because it's so god awfully annoying.
We call it the powerstroke, but I feel that is offensive to a powerstroke.

Does it sound like only one or a few lifters are making noise?

If there's no oil getting to the top end, they'll all make noise - although if they had oil in them before it may take some time for that to happen.

Here's one thing you could do although it's not trivial... take off the valve cover, serpentine belt, and upper timing belt cover. Remove the cams and lifters, and carefully make sure the timing belt is loose enough that it's not engaging the crank pulley. Then have someone crank the motor for a few moments, and look and see where oil is coming out in the cam & lifter area. You should be able to verify that oil is getting to all the cam bearings and lifter bores.

Before you undertake the above, I should say I'm not 100% sure it's possible to get the timing belt positioned so the crank will not "drive" it without pulling the crank pulley. Maybe someone else can chime in and say if that's doable or not.

elaw wrote:Does it sound like only one or a few lifters are making noise?

If there's no oil getting to the top end, they'll all make noise - although if they had oil in them before it may take some time for that to happen.

Here's one thing you could do although it's not trivial... take off the valve cover, serpentine belt, and upper timing belt cover. Remove the cams and lifters, and carefully make sure the timing belt is loose enough that it's not engaging the crank pulley. Then have someone crank the motor for a few moments, and look and see where oil is coming out in the cam & lifter area. You should be able to verify that oil is getting to all the cam bearings and lifter bores.

Before you undertake the above, I should say I'm not 100% sure it's possible to get the timing belt positioned so the crank will not "drive" it without pulling the crank pulley. Maybe someone else can chime in and say if that's doable or not.

I wish we had more time to try this. I'm kind of tired of pulling the cams and timing components. Might be able to try that next weekend. As long as your idea is plausible, haha.
Going to try swapping out the check valve under the pressure sensor. Got the extra one removed from his old toasted block. It doesn't tick NEARLY as bad when the motor is cold. Still baffled by this, and annoyed because it sounds like garbage.

And like I said, its definitely getting oil, the head would be toast by now. There is no wear on the cams or cam surfaces.

Did you resolve this? I am getting a bit more tick on my engine than I would like now that I have it running again and I have full oil pressure.

Never resolved this. The thought is that the machine shop never checked valve lengths and didn't cut the new valves to the same length/depth as the old ones, but I'm no machinist. The tick is driving us insane and god damn is it tacky.

On rare occasions it will all of a sudden be gone, no tick, then 5 minutes later it will come back.

it's so insanely annoying.

have you inspected the camshafts closely?

pilihp2 wrote:The thought is that the machine shop never checked valve lengths and didn't cut the new valves to the same length/depth as the old ones

When I redid my head, I didn't fully trust the machine shop that had it even though they were THE guys in my area for it. I gave them the freakin Bentley and dog eared the page pertaining to the specs and tolerances for valve lengths and such and took it over in person and discussed it with the head machinist. I wasn't gonna let anybody goof it up for me! I do hope this isn't the case for you guys as it would mean a disassembly in the future to rectify. Keep looking tho!