The Project Pad

Ah.. I remember at one point you talking about having to move stuff outside the case with the divider board, and was only joking about your adding more systems to the car (abs). I do recommend launch control though- try using it without giggling.

Well this time I don't have anything *too* exciting to report, but I've fabbed up a bracket for the ABS pump:



That's one rugged sucka... it's made of 0.105" (12 gauge) 304 stainless.

Next comes the "fun" part... figuring out how to attach it to the car! We're not looking forward to that at all.

Bracket looks good. Will be interesting to see how it mounts in the area it is supposed to reside.

Heh... interesting indeed!

I'm pretty clever when it comes to mounting things "to" other things - attaching something to the firewall or the engine or whatever.

But this (large heavy) thing basically needs to sit in the middle of empty space, and still be supported somehow. Challenging...

you, sir, deserve a cookie for mastering old ABS systems. Everybody hates them.

I have question here.. What is the number of the ecu under the back seat?

Is it 857907379D and has acceleration switch together with it
Or is it a newer 4A0907379 that has no accel sw connected; but has pin 31 going to DTC connector

Are you able to pull the codes?

EDIT: ok, re-read your posts.. 4D0907379J is a control unit for J / L units are for automatics, while F / K is for manual cars. It possibly is the reason why you get the light, as it does not see TCU connected

I am asking this because I want to retrofit my 200 20v with ecu that is able to pull the codes (read: change 857907379D to 4A0907379)

Mostly they are pin-to-pin compatible, except for acceleration switch, transmission control module wires (Newer one is TCM compatible but is also used in manual cars, older one is not)
Newer one has no lateral accel switch so probably it would do nothing there
Pin 31 in new computer has k-line on it while original one from 200 20vT has nada. Not sure if I need a wire
Few other wires that I wasn't able to understand / explain

Both computers are difflock, abs relay (76), and abs kill button friendly (yours are not afaik)

Any knowledge on this? Sorry for hijacking the thread but I thought that is kind of related

Thanks!

I haven't checked but I'd be very very surprised if the unit I'm using is pin-compatible with the original B3 one. There are many things that are different about it - this is a 4-channel unit, the original is 3. This one has EDL so there are two additional valves in the pump/valve unit that the B3 doesn't have. Also it's got this weird 4-pin brake light switch that actually has two switches inside it (one normally open, the other normally closed) and the ECU is connected to both.

I am able to read (and reset) codes from it, using either a VAG-COM (ebay clone with the free software, not a "real" one) or a VAG-compatible scan tool.

I think my ECU is "automatic transmission compatible" but doesn't require the autobox, as it came from a car with a 5-speed (I don't think the UrS6 was ever sold in USA with an auto?).

And I think I've finally figured out the "real" reason the light is on, and it's funny. Well it would be if I hadn't spent so much time trying to diagnose the "problem"...

Here's the story: whenever I'd power up the unit when it "should" be okay (all sensors connected, etc), the light would initially be off and after a couple of seconds it would come on. Checking codes would show none. If I intentionally create a fault (disconnect a sensor), the light would never come on and I could pull a fault code for the missing sensor.

Now consider what the documentation says: when the ignition is turned on (= unit is first powered up), the light should come on for 2 seconds (I expected longer) and go off. If a fault is found during power-on self test, the light would come on and stay on.

If you consider the info in the last two paragraphs together, you'll realize... the light is working backwards! It's on when it should be off, and vice-versa.

I realized that could make sense... and here's why. I wired the light the "old school" way - one side of bulb to +12, the other to the ECU. So when the ECU grounds its output, the light illuminates. But suppose, in the car that ECU came from, instead of a bulb the ABS ECU connects to the auto-check or some other sort of computer in the cluster that's looking for a ground to turn the light off? Then everything would make sense, as the state of the light (or whatever other warning) would be inverted. It makes sense from a design perspective too since if the ECU or wiring fails or is missing, the warning will be activated.

So anyhow, I'm running with that logic for now. I think the system is actually working fine, just the lamp output is backwards. And I can easily build a little circuit to take care of that.

Yes I have read most of it in previous page -really great job you are doing - but now everything is perfectly clear as you have stated the whole thing in one post.
I guess we are on different leagues now, as I am going to deal with a bit older systems, where all quattros were 3 channel, had difflock, didn't have edl, and had a button to turn the system off. So I will continue to research on my own. Probably will start my own thread about it and hope for any input from somebody like yodasfro

And regarding the 'opposite light' thingy - I have definitely read somewhere that if you upgrade your instrument cluster in some production years, you get this problem. Everything works as they are supposed to but abs light does reverse of what it is supposed to. There was a write-up about rewiring the dash (basically inverting the signal), but I will not be able to find it. And yes, it was probably about upgrading Audi 100/C4 (urs4) to Audi A6/C4 (urs6), so probably the same logic applies to B3 as it was in urs4/100c4

Hey thanks for that tip about the "opposite light"... it's nice to know that perhaps it's that way in the real world and not just in my imagination!

I'm going to end up with a pretty weird installation when this is all done. My car does have a diff lock, so I'm going to use the ABS relay and button normally found on a B3 to cut power to the ABS brain when the button is pressed or the diff is locked. That's pretty much what Audi does... hopefully it'll work for me too!

oh I see -- so this is the system with abs relay? Did it originally had a button to disable it? Because afaik when both abs-kill button and difflock button was gone, there was no need for abs relay.

The actual system I'm using (late UrS6) had no relay from the factory, but also had no provision for the driver to shut off the ABS. So I'm using the B3 relay to add that capability.

One thing I've been procrastinating on forever with this car is the messed-up exterior trim. And that's gotta stop!

But I'm worried about damaging stuff trying to remove what's on the car. So can anyone explain, in terms that a turnip can understand, how this is done?

I'm referring specifically to the black rubber trim that goes along the middle of the doors and fenders, and the bottom of the doors.

I think the mid trim is held on by adhesive foam tape... can anyone verify that? So it'll just be a matter of pulling/cutting it off without marring the paint too much.

The bottom trim worries me more. I think it's held on by plastic clips? How specifically is it removed? Methods I can think of are slide forward, slide rearward, or pull/pry straight out. But I don't want to guess wrong and end up destroying the clips!

Thanks!

For the trim on the lower edges of the doors, each piece has a cap on either end. Often those caps are missing or broken... Pop the caps out, open the doors and slide the pieces straight off. The fender pieces have studs and are secured with two 8mm nuts.

The lower trim is also removed in a similar fashion, but beware, water, salt and time take their toll on these pieces. The steel reinforcements rust and lose strength/integrity. Once you pull it off, you won't likely be able to put them back on. Before yanking yours, see if you can find a set from Texas or California or the desert Southwest to replace them with. The lower trim on the fenders have little stainless pull tabs and are glued to the fenders on the top.

The good news is all the pieces are still available, though pricey. http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/showAs ... bly=748418

Thanks... that helps a lot! :-)

Middle trim is double stick tape. Peel it off with a little heat if you want to re use any pieces. A destriping wheel removes the old tape pretty well. 15$ at your local auto paint store.

Well today I'm not a happy camper. :(

The upper door trim pieces for the most part appear to be NLA. For the main front and rear door ones, ETKA only lists the left-side ones and only in gray (I didn't even know they came in gray!). With considerable digging on the 'net, I found part numbers for the right pieces in the right color, but they don't seem to be obtainable. I don't suppose anyone has a 893853957D, a 893853958D, a 893853967D, and a 893853968D lying around they'd want to sell?

It doesn't appear removing the metal strips from the existing pieces is a realistic option. They're very rusted, and it seems like I'd have to cut the daylights out of the trim to extract what's left of them.

So... has anyone got any bright ideas as to other options? Would trim from a B4 or other Audi work, maybe with modification? Is there such a thing as "universal door trim"? I have to admit I'm 99% clueless when it comes to bodywork.

If it helps any, this is the page with partnumbers I'm looking at: VAG catalog. The pieces I need most are #s 2 and 3, in black, for both sides of the car. Items 1, 4, 5, and 6 would be nice to have too.

Hey... is there any chance one of you with a C4 would be willing to measure the width of the belt molding on their car?

I found someone on ebay (here) selling complete molding kits to fit C4 100/A6 and I'm wondering if it could be made to fit with some creative cutting. But I need to make sure it's pretty close to 3" wide or I think it would look funny.

There is this stuff which may look good painted body color? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-80-B3-B4 ... 0534859693
The C4 trim attaches in a different way it clips on and is secured with screws at either end.
One could probably trim the lower rubber moulding from a C4 to fit a B3 which I plan on trying eventually.

Doh! I had actually seen that, but they apparently won't ship to the US. Otherwise it would be perfect!

I knew the C4 trim used clips, but I figured I could find a way to attach it with foam tape and/or trim adhesive.

1. use some service that are forwarding packages, like borderlinx, but for one package this is expensive

2. ask somebody you know to forward it to you

3. Contact the seller. he may change his mind

Would it help if I beg? :(

Here's my problem... I need to make sure the replacement trim is wide enough to cover the paint mess under where the old trim was:

I emailed the guy selling the C4 trim on ebay but he replied that he doesn't know how wide the trim he's selling is. Whole lotta help he was! :frustrated:

But if someone with a C4 100 or A6 could measure the width of their trim then I'd know if there was a chance of that trim fitting. I don't need it to the nearest thousandth... just whether it's 3" wide plus or minus an eighth or so. Or 75mm if you're not in the USA.

I did look for "universal" trim, but there's very little out there in that width. Most of what's available is for trucks, has chrome parts (yuk!), and just wouldn't match appearance-wise.

If you can con a west coaster into pealing some trim off a car on a hot day, it re uses pretty darn well. I only cracked one piece pulling them off my car and it was after the sun went down and the trim cooled. Jared Hersh might be able to help you out. (angrytaco)

Was yours held on only by foam tape?

I don't know if it differs by year or something, but on my car that was not the case. You can kind of see it in the photo above... the two inner stripes are foam tape. But there are two others, where the trim was held with a *really* nasty substance unlike any adhesive I've ever seen. It had about the consistency and strength of tire valve stems, if you've ever done your own tires and had to cut those off. Heat and solvents (alcohol, WD-40) seemed to have no effect on it. I mostly ended up cutting it with a razor blade.

I'm just curious if others have had different experiences, because I can't imagine anyone with trim attached that way getting the trim off in any sort of reusable condition.

The C4 100 trim measures 2.14" or 2 and 1/8th it woudl probably work I can take more measurements and hold piece up to my 90q. The B3 80/90 trim does come in two varieties smooth non textured on earlier 80 models and the textured crap on the 90 and late build 80.
This stuff doesn't look too bad if the picture loads http://forums.quattroworld.com/9080/msgs/34870.phtml
Made by this place http://cowlesproducts.com/ that is actually in CT

Gah... I was really hoping it would be 3" wide but I guess I'm out of luck. Thanks for taking the trouble to measure it though! :-)

My worry with narrower trim is the top and bottom areas you can see in the photo above where the adhesive is. It appears there's some sort of black "primer" on top of the paint, that will remain no matter how good a job I do removing the adhesive. And any trim that's narrower than about 2.75" will leave some of that exposed and it'll look awful.

I suppose I could take it to a body shop and see what it would take to get the doors and fenders back to all white so I can apply some different trim, but I haven't hit the lottery yet.

Couple of thoughts
1 Yes mine had the baby poop tar to remove as well as the double stick tape.
2 No solvents seemed to have much effect on the crap.
3 Rubber wheel was the way to go for removing just about all of it, and solvents seemed to work ok on the last little bits but still not fantastic.
4 I got all of mine off even with that tar and only cracked the rear passenger side. Key is lots of heat, like 100* day plus a heat gun and just sweat through it.

Frankly someone with a little patience and a bit of work could just do away with the trim entirely. You should be able to get a quart of matched single stage for roughly 100$ bucks and respray the lower sections of the door yourself. Pull the doors and do em in the yard. Put your tape line in the visual break that the "trough" from the door trim provides and just do away with the trim entirely.

If you absolutely have to have something there I would use B3 Passat trim. Nice and wide, still available and doesn't have a logo in it that I remember.