Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:08 am
He went like three or four days with little or no sleep... its a battle born tradition.
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The Project Pad
Eric's '90 80QT: rustic bits
Page 27 of 43
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: getting annoyed with Hank
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:14 pm
He will come through for you man. He is just a busy guy.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: getting annoyed with Hank
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:20 pm
Yeah I know, it was just driving me nuts trying to plan out this project (and hopefully get it done before the snow flies) without any idea when I'd have the housing back.
But I say "was" because I actually got an email from him today! He says it's done and I should be reunited with my "baby" soon. 8)
But I say "was" because I actually got an email from him today! He says it's done and I should be reunited with my "baby" soon. 8)
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:28 pm
If you hit him up on the right place he'll see it.
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:40 am
So moving right along...
I think I've got most of the Volvo K24 issues under control, with one exception. Because of the built-in bypass valve, the Volvo K24's compressor inlet sticks out farther than on the stock 20V turbo. In other words it ends closer to the front of the car, and in particular quite close to the passenger's side core support and headlight. Because of that it's very hard to fit a 90-degree elbow on there to bring air into the turbo.
I haven't test-fit anything on the car yet but I bought a 3" cobra head elbow and even that doesn't look like it will clear.
So... those of you who have put the Volvo turbos on cars like this - how did you handle the turbo inlet plumbing? Extra credit if you can provide photos...
I think I've got most of the Volvo K24 issues under control, with one exception. Because of the built-in bypass valve, the Volvo K24's compressor inlet sticks out farther than on the stock 20V turbo. In other words it ends closer to the front of the car, and in particular quite close to the passenger's side core support and headlight. Because of that it's very hard to fit a 90-degree elbow on there to bring air into the turbo.
I haven't test-fit anything on the car yet but I bought a 3" cobra head elbow and even that doesn't look like it will clear.
So... those of you who have put the Volvo turbos on cars like this - how did you handle the turbo inlet plumbing? Extra credit if you can provide photos...
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:37 am
You might want to ask Angry Taco how he did it. His has the built in bpv machined off and the compressor housing welded up. You could then shorten the inlet so the total length is close to a stock K24 or K26.
I have been looking at installing a 7400 on my T44. I like the idea of using the built in bpv since it would clean things up but I have a similar problem with the inlet plumbing which necessitates relocating and replacing the intercooler.
I think the cleanest solution would be to use the 7400 with the Volvo exhaust housing w/ internal wastegate, relocate the turbo with custom manifold and custom downpipe. Get rid of the external bpv and external wastegate.
I have been looking at installing a 7400 on my T44. I like the idea of using the built in bpv since it would clean things up but I have a similar problem with the inlet plumbing which necessitates relocating and replacing the intercooler.
I think the cleanest solution would be to use the 7400 with the Volvo exhaust housing w/ internal wastegate, relocate the turbo with custom manifold and custom downpipe. Get rid of the external bpv and external wastegate.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:43 am
GTJeff wrote:You might want to ask Angry Taco how he did it. His has the built in bpv machined off and the compressor housing welded up. You could then shorten the inlet so the total length is close to a stock K24 or K26.
I have been looking at installing a 7400 on my T44. I like the idea of using the built in bpv since it would clean things up but I have a similar problem with the inlet plumbing which necessitates relocating and replacing the intercooler.
I think the cleanest solution would be to use the 7400 with the Volvo exhaust housing w/ internal wastegate, relocate the turbo with custom manifold and custom downpipe. Get rid of the external bpv and external wastegate.
That makes no sense from a design standpoint and totally defeats the purpose of hybrids like this. The point of making a "bolt on" turbo upgrade is to avoid a custom manifold, DP and associated stuff. Plus, then you're building a manifold just to put a 350hp turbo with an internal wastegate?...
On a related note, Dave, the guy who built AngryTaco's hybrid, had the intake machined down to make the intake fit better, but apparently it's still tight.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:52 am
mine:
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:56 am
more: (amazing what you can find when you search...)
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:40 pm
Code:[/quote]
That makes no sense from a design standpoint and totally defeats the purpose of hybrids like this. The point of making a "bolt on" turbo upgrade is to avoid a custom manifold, DP and associated stuff. Plus, then you're building a manifold just to put a 350hp turbo with an internal wastegate?...[/quote]
I agree with you and I was also thinking this is a 20vt swap. Says AAN right there in his signature. duh...
I agree with you and I was also thinking this is a 20vt swap. Says AAN right there in his signature. duh...
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:31 pm
Hmmm... looks like you have the same 3" cobra head with reducing adapter I just bought!Hybrid_Hatch wrote:more: (amazing what you can find when you search...)
I did some SWAG measuring with the turbo off the car and it seemed like it wouldn't quite fit, but your pictures seem to indicate otherwise. Yay! :thanks:
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:28 am
FYI
For those that are interested in installing a volvo k24 7400 on their car, find the porsche 944 turbo #6 hotside to bolt on with no mods. Do not machine a k24 hotside to fit. The inlet of the turbine housing cannot support the flow and will cause dett isues that cannot be overcome. Secondly, you will be finding it difficult to fit the compressor housing without modifying your water lines, oil lines, figuring out a solution for the bpv by a plug, or using it. there is a massive amount of alum hanging off the front of that compressor. I had a friend (Hank) weld up the holes for the bpv after I shaved (myself) all the extra unneeded metal off of it to use the stock lines without necessary modification. Hank was nice enough to machine the inlet most of the way down for me without being asked to do so. at that point I had an inlet that was about 2ish inches long. I could have shortened that by miles and even perhaps reduced the diameter of the inlet to a smaller size, further simplifying the situation. The second part is all expert level modification so its not for the feint of heart, and is NOT reversible. I absolutely loved the spool and the amazing torque curve of that turbo. its only downfall, for me, was the wall it hit up top was too early. I also recommend rods at a minimum because it IS capable of venting the block due to that amazing torque curve. just ask the other Dave.
Eric, I too used a cobra head on mine.
Im looking forward to hearing how the car runs. Keep it up brother. 8) :cheers:
For those that are interested in installing a volvo k24 7400 on their car, find the porsche 944 turbo #6 hotside to bolt on with no mods. Do not machine a k24 hotside to fit. The inlet of the turbine housing cannot support the flow and will cause dett isues that cannot be overcome. Secondly, you will be finding it difficult to fit the compressor housing without modifying your water lines, oil lines, figuring out a solution for the bpv by a plug, or using it. there is a massive amount of alum hanging off the front of that compressor. I had a friend (Hank) weld up the holes for the bpv after I shaved (myself) all the extra unneeded metal off of it to use the stock lines without necessary modification. Hank was nice enough to machine the inlet most of the way down for me without being asked to do so. at that point I had an inlet that was about 2ish inches long. I could have shortened that by miles and even perhaps reduced the diameter of the inlet to a smaller size, further simplifying the situation. The second part is all expert level modification so its not for the feint of heart, and is NOT reversible. I absolutely loved the spool and the amazing torque curve of that turbo. its only downfall, for me, was the wall it hit up top was too early. I also recommend rods at a minimum because it IS capable of venting the block due to that amazing torque curve. just ask the other Dave.
Eric, I too used a cobra head on mine.
Im looking forward to hearing how the car runs. Keep it up brother. 8) :cheers:
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:40 am
That's interesting... Hank seems to think that the K24 hotside housing is better than the Porsche! So now I'm even more confused... not that there's anything new about that! :-)
I'd really prefer not to shorten the compressor housing, as I'd like to keep the built-in BPV. Although I must say I'm liking that idea less since I've discovered that repair parts for it (the BPV itself) are difficult or impossible to come by.
I'm currently looking into two options. I've got a 3" cobra head elbow that might fit. If it doesn't, I've got the next size down cobra and I'm thinking I could get a little machined off the OD of the compressor inlet to allow that to fit.
As far as "dynamic connecting rod modification", the MS3 I'm using can be set up to vary boost over RPM... my plan is to keep it low at lower RPMs so there's no huge torque spike, then have it rise as RPMs increase.
I'd really prefer not to shorten the compressor housing, as I'd like to keep the built-in BPV. Although I must say I'm liking that idea less since I've discovered that repair parts for it (the BPV itself) are difficult or impossible to come by.
I'm currently looking into two options. I've got a 3" cobra head elbow that might fit. If it doesn't, I've got the next size down cobra and I'm thinking I could get a little machined off the OD of the compressor inlet to allow that to fit.
As far as "dynamic connecting rod modification", the MS3 I'm using can be set up to vary boost over RPM... my plan is to keep it low at lower RPMs so there's no huge torque spike, then have it rise as RPMs increase.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:40 am
dont know what to tell you about the k24 turbine confusion. maybe he has an explaination.
no huge torque spike!? say it aint so! thats the fun of the volvo k24. just keep it at 25 and below and you will be fine i think. I dont recall what boost pressure dave was running at when it happened, but im pretty sure he was trying to max it out.
no huge torque spike!? say it aint so! thats the fun of the volvo k24. just keep it at 25 and below and you will be fine i think. I dont recall what boost pressure dave was running at when it happened, but im pretty sure he was trying to max it out.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:07 am
Scubadave,
What machining was done to the k24 turbine housing that caused detonation?
What machining was done to the k24 turbine housing that caused detonation?
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:29 am
its not the machining that causes the dett. the inlet isn't big enough to properly flow and it gets backed up causing too high a pressure in the manifold.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:50 am
Did you machine the circumfrential inducer slot in the turbine housing to match the width of the turbine wheel's inducer? The inducer slot in the Audi K24 turbine housing is much narrower because the turbine wheel has a much narrower inducer. Is this the restriction that you are talking about?
On the left is a K24 7400 turbine housing. On the right is my modified K24 turbine housing. I haven't run it yet but I have done my best to match the geometry of the K24 7400's turbine housing.
On the left is a K24 7400 turbine housing. On the right is my modified K24 turbine housing. I haven't run it yet but I have done my best to match the geometry of the K24 7400's turbine housing.
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:42 pm
Porsche k26
Audi k24
when I machined mine, I too dropped the entry way floor due to the machining and blended it in. the real problem is the throat diameters between the two. the k24 is just too small to process the volume without backing up into the manifold. you can remove material, but can you remove enough for it to fix this problem without compromising the thickness and integrity of the housing? after machining 3 housings (1 of which the machinist screwed up) and no change, I gave up. I do miss it, and wonder if I could have remedied the problem with the Porsche housing, but will never know.
its worth a try to to widen it if you can.
Audi k24
when I machined mine, I too dropped the entry way floor due to the machining and blended it in. the real problem is the throat diameters between the two. the k24 is just too small to process the volume without backing up into the manifold. you can remove material, but can you remove enough for it to fix this problem without compromising the thickness and integrity of the housing? after machining 3 housings (1 of which the machinist screwed up) and no change, I gave up. I do miss it, and wonder if I could have remedied the problem with the Porsche housing, but will never know.
its worth a try to to widen it if you can.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:37 am
Yeah... last night I put the K24-7400 hotside housing along side a Porsche K26 #6 housing generously lent to me by DE80q and tried to do some measuring.
I couldn't really get a caliper in there straight, but on the Volvo one that slot (where the exhaust gases come out to hit the turbine) is a *lot* wider. Like around 0.35" on the Porsche housing vs. 0.46" or so on the Volvo. Unfortunately I don't have a spare Audi K24 housing around to measure so I'm not sure how that one compares to the other two.
I couldn't really get a caliper in there straight, but on the Volvo one that slot (where the exhaust gases come out to hit the turbine) is a *lot* wider. Like around 0.35" on the Porsche housing vs. 0.46" or so on the Volvo. Unfortunately I don't have a spare Audi K24 housing around to measure so I'm not sure how that one compares to the other two.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:24 am
Here is a picture of the Audi K24 and the Volvo K24 turbine wheels to give you an idea. I don't have a stock K24 housing any more but from memory that slot is only 1/4" wide or so. I was able to grind out that slot to pretty close to the same width as Volvo K24 but after seeing Scubadaves comments maybe I should work on it a little more.
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It would be nice if Hank or others who have modified the K24 housing with good results could chime in with some details.
2013-09-27 21.49.08.jpg [ 99.49 KiB | Viewed 1445 times ]
[/quote]
It would be nice if Hank or others who have modified the K24 housing with good results could chime in with some details.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: Volvo K24 question
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:41 am
There also may be a point of diminishing returns on enlarging that slot.
I have no scientific basis to support this, but it seems to me that the surface area of that slot (as it faces the turbine) should be about the same as the surface area of the turbine outlet port (minus the stuff that's inside it, i.e. the turbine shaft and blades)... so neither restricts flow more than the other.
I have no scientific basis to support this, but it seems to me that the surface area of that slot (as it faces the turbine) should be about the same as the surface area of the turbine outlet port (minus the stuff that's inside it, i.e. the turbine shaft and blades)... so neither restricts flow more than the other.
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: fuel pump confusion
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:08 am
So... the Amazing Wonder AudiTM had a strange loss of power the other day and I'm thinking maybe it's the fuel pump.
And silly me, I thought all these cars (B3 sedans with CIS) used the same pump!
Well, GAP lists one. Amazon.com lists two (Bosch pumps, I'm not considering other types), and it's impossible to tell them apart with their usual crummy descriptions. Partsgeek has *3*! One labeled "12mm outlet", another labeled "16mm outlet", and third labeled "standard version". There are pretty wide variations in price, from under $90 to almost $190.
Now I know there's a replacement-type Bosch pump that replaces the OE electrical connectors with ring terminals and nuts... none of the above are that one. At least in the website photos, they all have the weird Audi red and blue screw-on connectors.
Can anyone unconfuse me about this?
And silly me, I thought all these cars (B3 sedans with CIS) used the same pump!
Well, GAP lists one. Amazon.com lists two (Bosch pumps, I'm not considering other types), and it's impossible to tell them apart with their usual crummy descriptions. Partsgeek has *3*! One labeled "12mm outlet", another labeled "16mm outlet", and third labeled "standard version". There are pretty wide variations in price, from under $90 to almost $190.
Now I know there's a replacement-type Bosch pump that replaces the OE electrical connectors with ring terminals and nuts... none of the above are that one. At least in the website photos, they all have the weird Audi red and blue screw-on connectors.
Can anyone unconfuse me about this?
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:52 am
Just get a bosch 044 pump external version and call it good.
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Re: Eric's '90 80QT: this week's nutty idea
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:41 am
I think I (may have) posted a while back that I'm working on retrofitting ABS to this car. Yeah I know many of you think that's nutty, but "nutty" is my middle name!
But now I'm thinking of raising the "nutty" bar just a little more. I have recently noticed that ABS units off B5 A4s can be had for dirt cheap, have the computer built in (= less wiring), and could also give me an EDL function. Yes I love manual diff locks but it would be nice for the computer to kick in and give a hand with traction if wheelspin occurs that I don't anticipate.
So I got my hands on one of these units, along with about a foot of the wiring harness. Unfortunately the seller wasn't very clear on what car it came off of, but I think it's a '99 A4 quattro. Maybe. Or maybe not.
The fun part is, I've found some wiring diagrams on the web, but none seem to match this unit! They're close, but it seems like VAG like to reassign the functions of the various wires about every half hour.
So I'm wondering if anyone has access to A4 wiring diagrams from that era and would be willing to scan the ABS pages and send them to me? I'd even be willing to pay a few $ if that would help. It's also possible this came from a Passat 4motion, so if you have Passat ABS diagrams from the same era I'd be interested also.
And before anyone asks, I've conected to the unit with a VAG-COM and it says it has the EDL function, so it definitely came of *some* sort of AWD car!
TIA... :-)
But now I'm thinking of raising the "nutty" bar just a little more. I have recently noticed that ABS units off B5 A4s can be had for dirt cheap, have the computer built in (= less wiring), and could also give me an EDL function. Yes I love manual diff locks but it would be nice for the computer to kick in and give a hand with traction if wheelspin occurs that I don't anticipate.
So I got my hands on one of these units, along with about a foot of the wiring harness. Unfortunately the seller wasn't very clear on what car it came off of, but I think it's a '99 A4 quattro. Maybe. Or maybe not.
The fun part is, I've found some wiring diagrams on the web, but none seem to match this unit! They're close, but it seems like VAG like to reassign the functions of the various wires about every half hour.
So I'm wondering if anyone has access to A4 wiring diagrams from that era and would be willing to scan the ABS pages and send them to me? I'd even be willing to pay a few $ if that would help. It's also possible this came from a Passat 4motion, so if you have Passat ABS diagrams from the same era I'd be interested also.
And before anyone asks, I've conected to the unit with a VAG-COM and it says it has the EDL function, so it definitely came of *some* sort of AWD car!
TIA... :-)
Re: Eric's '90 80QT: this week's nutty idea
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:22 am
Not all that nutty in my opinion. ABS is nice to have when in the snow and ice, and you see a lot of that.
sorry, not anyhelp otherwise. Good luck.
sorry, not anyhelp otherwise. Good luck.