The Project Pad

Thanks Craig! This motor will be fun. It is a lot lighter, and should make the same power.

Peter, no way no how. I machined down a stock one to see if I could salvage the flanges. This thing is very complex. It has 3 mating surfaces for keeping oil out of the front main seal, the oil pan and then the timing cover in back. The oil pump being down there makes it even more tricky as the gears and chains have to come down through the oil pan. There are also guides for hte tensioner that are relying on the oil pan for position and strength. Add in the baffles and windage, along with the oil pickup tube, all while trying to put a subframe where the oil pump is.... This is by far the worse part of the swap..

The good news is that I think I have it figured out. It won't be a cheap piece to reproduce, but it will be a nice Motorsports pan with nice doors and traps.

yikes! How hard would it be to mod a subframe instead?

The only way to keep the stock oil pan is to completely remove the middle section of the subframe and get rid of the sway in the type 85/b3/b4. You literally would have no middle section of the subframe to get it in there, and yo uwould still have to modify the lower pan. If you get rid of the sway in the urS, you don't have pickups for the control arms. If an oil pan is developed, this motor could easily go into every quattro chassis ever made, bar none.

ShavedQuattro wrote:The only way to keep the stock oil pan is to completely remove the middle section of the subframe and get rid of the sway in the type 85/b3/b4. You literally would have no middle section of the subframe to get it in there, and yo uwould still have to modify the lower pan. If you get rid of the sway in the urS, you don't have pickups for the control arms. If an oil pan is developed, this motor could easily go into every quattro chassis ever made, bar none.

:woowoo:

ShavedQuattro wrote:The only way to keep the stock oil pan is to completely remove the middle section of the subframe and get rid of the sway in the type 85/b3/b4. You literally would have no middle section of the subframe to get it in there, and yo uwould still have to modify the lower pan. If you get rid of the sway in the urS, you don't have pickups for the control arms. If an oil pan is developed, this motor could easily go into every quattro chassis ever made, bar none.

And 944
I think it would be a squeeze with the measurement from the stock oil pan, but with your pan you might not even have to touch the crossmember on the 944!
Now to find you a 944 shell in Vegas...

Dang...that is really cool Hankl

OOOOGT wrote:

ShavedQuattro wrote:The only way to keep the stock oil pan is to completely remove the middle section of the subframe and get rid of the sway in the type 85/b3/b4. You literally would have no middle section of the subframe to get it in there, and yo uwould still have to modify the lower pan. If you get rid of the sway in the urS, you don't have pickups for the control arms. If an oil pan is developed, this motor could easily go into every quattro chassis ever made, bar none.

And 944
I think it would be a squeeze with the measurement from the stock oil pan, but with your pan you might not even have to touch the crossmember on the 944!
Now to find you a 944 shell in Vegas...

I don't think that would be much of a problem. Remember my neighbor's big 50x80 shop? He has about 4or 5 944 s in there at any given time. Might have to do some talking to get him to turn loose of one though. He races spec 944 and trashes one about every season, so he likes to keep spares on hand. Sounds fun!

is there strong concern for the newly machined pan warping when the sheet-metal bucket shape is welded to it? Or will it require an over-sized crude flange that will receive final machine-ing after welding in order to guarantee fitment for sealing the mating surfaces?

As my CQ's engine and its management and electronics are 250k plus and shot, I am watching all this very carefully considering the cost of a lightly used stock 2.3L is approaching a grand here in the north east by the time you update some gaskets... and you still have a stock setup with all its limited engine management issues... a stock-ish 2.5L with decent longevity and parts availability will be very tempting indeed even though standalone is going to add cost. I'm a ways out from having decent funding for my project and the sources for good used old stock Longblocks is getting harder and harder to find.

Not really, they are 1/2" flanges minimum, with the back flange being machined in 1" billet. I suppose the majority of novice welders would noodle it, but I am banking on not even surfacing them afterwards. There are a lot of design considerations when making a flange that can help minimize heat poured into the part.

Yeah, stay tuned. Marc Swanson at EFIexpress is actually thinking to run one of these motors off a stock AAN motronics ECU/harness. With the proper pins in the flywheel and a messaged cam sensor signal, it probably won't be hard to adapt a few sensors to make the ECU think it is seeing a different type of 20vt. Interesting concept atleast.

This is some great progress. :thanks:

Hank, any chance a stock pan can be made to work for a b5? And how close in length is it close to a 1.8t?

DUDE is your email broked? If you're getting them and just really busy no problem, just making sure that they're not ending up in outer space somewhere...

replied! Matt

No chance whatsoever with the stock pan working on any quattro chassis that retains a stock subframe and sway. The block heights are the same as the old 5 cylinder blocks, so look at an oil pan of a 1.8t or 2.7t, you will see that the oil pans are basically flange width away from the subframe and sways on any longitude setup. The nature of the stock pan is that it has a 2.5" baffled section under the block that will hit any longitude setup.

Wish it wasn't so, but it is. I am coming to terms with it

Good to know. Thanks. Can't wait to see the CNC solution

ShavedQuattro wrote:I suppose the majority of novice welders would noodle it, but I am banking on not even surfacing them afterwards.

Couldn't resist..

ahahahahaha. Didn't mean to put anybody down!



They are pretty beefy flanges...

yes yes yes!

I cant stop looking at it.

That's what she said.

ShavedQuattro wrote:ahahahahaha. Didn't mean to put anybody down!



They are pretty beefy flanges...

Is mine done yet?! ;-)

I know if I ask, I probably can't afford it but someone has to.
HOW MUCH THIS IS ?

I'll offer a couple of stages of it, from a basic 7a style with no trap doors or extra capacity around 550, and a full blown trap door motorsport 6 quart capacity for around 800.

glibobbo21 wrote:I cant stop looking at it.

psychorallyfreak wrote:That's what she said.

Flange is looking great. Cant wait to see the entire setup.

Hank looks awesome cannot wait to see that bolted in urq