The Project Pad

I agree, thanks for the good posts!

highlander69 wrote:I really like the updates. It was cool seeing the car at Carlisle.

It looks like you'll be going to ms3x at this rate of computer modding

Cool thread.

Cheers,

Craig

Thanks Craig! I cannot stress enough how friendly, inviting people like you, Martin and your 'crew' made Carlisle a highlight of this year I want to push this old 2.2 board as far as I can, and eventually it will be relegated to another project and I'll build a new ECU for this car. I mean, I think pretty much the only thing left is VR sensors and COP as almost all my other outputs I have any use for are used up!

And thank you Jay, Matt and Chris, it makes working on this thing so much more fun knowing I get to share the progress with like minded (read similarly insane) Audi people

Ok so Boost control and map switching.... I built the circuits last night, just need to run wires out of the ECU to a map switch and to my boost control board... you don't even want to see the inside of my ECU

I'm using an N75 valve and after consulting with my friend Cyrus I decided to use the bottom refrence port instead of the top to keep stress on the diaphram down. Seeing as I've already torn two, I think being nice to it is the best policy, although I really like that by using the top port you get overboost protection (20-25psi but still).

For anyone attempting the same, the bottom wastegate port is close enough to a 1/4" NPT so a couple barb fittings:




Lines mocked up


Plumbed! Results tonight!


Thanks for following along everyone!!!

in for vids!

2nd!

Which N75 are you using? I understand that the larger N249 works well for controlling the bottom port.....

It's just one off from a MKIV, I'm not even sure the PN on it... JY feebie and got a spare too (also dunno what PN). Both are smaller port sizes, one from a B5 1.8t and one from a MKIV Jetta (I think).

Anyways, can't seem to get boost control working. I think it might be something in my circuit as I played around with a bunch of different settings. I tried both normal and reversed polarity and both 100% and 0% DC for each setting. Seeing as how the N75 is an 'open state' valve (dunno if that's correct terminology?) but meaning without power air can flow from the pressure port to the output line, the settings should be: Increase voltage=Increase boost and people run these at either 19.5Hz or 39Hz. I tried both, no change. I did have closed loop seemingly trying to shoot for targets at first but I really want to get open loop working first. I'm going to go back out and try it one more time. We'll see.

As I promised videos, here is one, WOT tuning is pretty spot on, cruise needs work but here's rolling into 2nd through the top of 4th up a hill @~200Kpa. It isn't OMGCRAZYHPFAST but it pulls consistently strong all the way through each gear and doesn't really fall off, which I'm hoping means I'm at a good jumping off point for more boost. I can't wait to get this N75 working

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZzX2WBPrLQ[/youtube]

Whelp, I'm done with the MS EBC for the time being. I'm not sure what's going on with it, I've tried several variations on my circuit as I substituted a TIP120 transistor in place of the IRLZ44 reccommended by the megamanual. Suppossedly it's a good substitute but I have had no luck even after trying different base resistors, flipping the 12v/GND back and forth between the Source/Drain legs, and adding extra ground circuits, moving my flyback diode etc. etc. Oh well, home depot MBC for now. At the strip Friday I ran a 14.5 with a horrible launch and more short shifting. Second run I staged, set the LC, and the idiot in the EVO next to me didn't know how to stage, so in throwing my hands up in the air I dropped the LC switch, and then didn't recover it until the 1-2 shift... 17.xx run. I am DONE with the drags for the time being. I've spent a grand total of probably 7 hours the last two trips for a grand total of 3 runs I'm no drag racer, and I haven't even had a chance to get dialed in at the line to rip a good run these last two trips. Oh well, gotta get on top of some other stuff before H20... like an alignment.

Also, Greg referred one of their customers with a MK2 GTI to me for megasquirt help. The car is running a 2.0l ABA w/ crank wheel and wasted spark setup. The thing runs damn well, but he needed some tuning help in a BAD way. I told him my experience level but that I would take a crack at it so he came by Sunday. Icing was that he doesn't have a wideband

Anyways, after looking around at some other people's maps for similar setups we headed out to see what I could do with it. His maps were BAD, like random numbers all over the place BAD. I started by getting the fueling table somewhat sorted. Without a wideband my strategy was to find a point, make the sensor go rich, and then back those and the surrounding cells off a few points, slowly working through the whole map and getting an idea of what the motor wanted where. With something that resembeled a fueling map I moved onto ignition. I set the high advance areas first as I had a pretty good idea of numbers for these areas. Settled on about 34* for higher RPM cruising and 15* at idle. Then we started doing 3rd gear pulls hunting for advance numbers that gave good power. After I had that set I moved back to the VE table and repeated that process, hunting for the narrowband switch point and then using that as a reference to feel out what the motor wanted in that area of the map. Then I began filling in the spots between WOT and high advance cruise trying to smoothly blend the two while keeping partial throttle response (which could still be a little improved upon). With both tables finally having respectable curves, we went back to 3rd gear pulls and dialed in the timing. I settled at 26* where I'm guessing he's making peak torque (3500-4500) and backed it off 2 degrees every two cell blocks to redline. I ended up pulling a degree up towards redline for a total of 31* from 6700-7500rpm and the car really seemed to like that. Much smoother power delivery and when you get into it it really takes off and pulls hard to 7K. I could probably add some timing at higher RPM/low loads, but he's planning a wideband soon so then we'll really get a chance to dial it in. After being happy with the advance tables I went back and trimmed up the VE table one last time and everything seemed good. Anyone (on here) could have made that thing WORLDS better than it was, but I'm really happy with how dialed in I got it. The difference was night and day both in cruise and under WOT. Plus his mileage was already up from the ~10mpg he's been seeing

Anyways, just wanted to share my tuning experience, REALLY wish we could attach .MSQ files... hint hint

-Shawn C.

Lol nice Shawn. Probably would have taken a lot less time with a wideband! Were you using knock ears for timing? Or just givn'r

So no H20 for me, after getting it aligned my budget for the weekend was only gonna be $100 which is totally unrealistic to begin with once you factor gas, food etc and on top of that the alternator bearings are taking a shit. The rest of the car is pretty much a steaming pile of shit anyway and not worth taking. I'm getting back to the point of parting this thing so maybe at least I could go to the bar once in the next 6 months. Had to cancel going up to a rally in NY and now this due to budget constraints and the car is still a slow POS so the whole thing is really starting to not feel worth it.

Just relax.... Take a deep breath... It will be O...k...

The 200 is well worth it and you know it. You would kick yourself from here to timbucktoo if you either sold it, or parted it out. I know the feeling all too welthoughl. Just let it sit for a few days, and come back to it when you feel like it. Not like you dont have anything eles to drive

Oh... the car is by no means a slow POS. We had it running quite well and strong when you were up here, what happened? Is it all in the boost controler? maybe its time to look into putting a spring into the WG instead of running a BC.

Dont worry about the alt, I should have you covered on that.

Thats a pretty impressive effort on the tuning, especially considering you experience level last time we met! I wont touch a car without a wideband, and I still don't really like to play with timing much without a dyno. You have the right idea though. You can definitely tune timing by the seat of your pants, but make sure to back it off a degree or two once you really hit peak power... especially if you don't have a dyno or knock ears to help.

Just take a step back from the car... explain what is wrong, and maybe we can help! Electronic boost control is pretty hard to tune if you don't have a good understanding of the way the controls aspect of it works. It's a relatively complex function that controls everything. If you aren't getting any response at all (I.E. not even to the tuning point yet), then I'm sure it can be diagnosed. If all else fails though, there is nothing wrong with a QUALITY manual boost controller! I like them for simplicity. The only thing that sucks is not being able to roll boost on harder up top when it starts to fall off or being able to control it from gear to gear. Cheap MBCs *really* suck, so don't even bother with that.

Ok, so been kind of taking a break from the old girl for the last week, even went out to the bar and had a meal not comprised of cup o noodles or PB&J

Main issues I've been having: OIL LEAKS, believe rear main is mainly at fault (I replaced, probably my fault), the wiring needs a massive clean-up effort, I've had some DET in cylinder 3, a weird power delivery issue where sometimes it was significantly faster than others, and a lot of other little things... or so I thought.. I decided to pull the motor instead of the trans as it's easier given my workshop setup to get to the rear main. Did that Friday after work, SUB 2 HOUR ONE MAN MOTOR PULL SHOW. Unfortunately, I did find a couple things I wasn't expecting...

First off, I gotta post the view from my 'shop.' Actually this is my backyard, and I get to wake up looking out my bedroom window every morning to this




One man show meant alternating rachet straps to winch the motor up the ramp and into the shed. I'm pretty strong but I'm too damn light to put the power down


Launch control LOL


And then I pulled the head tonight with my Dad who came to visit while he was at my grandparent's near Philly. As we were lifting it off I glanced at cyl 3 and thought 'oh thank god, no damage!' Well, then I saw 4 and 5...

Piston 4:


Head over cyl 4:


Piston 5:


Head over cyl 5:


Really have no idea what happened here... Well, I do, something made its way into the cylinders but I can't figure out WTF it could have been It's only in 4+5, there's NO markings on the turbine wheel, there was nothing in the motor when opened, the valves appear to seat fine and are undamaged (so far as I can see now). Weird to say the least, I haven't lost any spark plug tips or anything, and the markings are definitely the same on both cylinders so...
...
...
While I'm in here...

Thanks for following along!

Wtf. That is messed. I'd be inclined to call that detonation but... I don't think it is.

chaloux wrote:Wtf. That is messed. I'd be inclined to call that detonation but... I don't think it is.

That's what I'm saying. What makes me think that it's not detonation is in looking at the last 2 pics, you can see on the bottom (in the pic) of the piston there are only 4 marks... and they align exactly with the matching surface of the head. I have to believe this was caused by something being sandwiched between the edge of the piston and the head.

Also, plugs 4+5 showed no signs of det over the life of 2 sets... And my advance numbers up top are pretty damn conservative..

Edit: over on MG Dana is saying detonation... I can only find one, kind of 2 pics of detonation that looks like mine, definitely looks totally different than the last set of pistons I melted through like that. My guess is it's been like this since the MS/CIS hybrid setup, which means a while ago.

Bueller... Bueller... Anyone have any thoughts?

Here's the ignition map I have been running. To me, it looks too conservative to be doing this on 93oct and Meth which is switched @7psi. If the consensus is detonation I'm going to say it's from the MS/CIS setup or from getting this setup up and running. I have been beating the absolute shit out of the car lately and if it was something in my current setup I'm pretty sure I'd have a lot more damage than this.



I feel like I'm using 034 having to post screen shots of tunerstudio

Lol what is this, 2002?
Can't give much crit on the timing numbers though, I'm still on base map which is probably the same or even more retarded. And I don't know how much difference 20vt CIS make

lol@ screenshot

my2000apb wrote:lol@ screenshot

at least it actually needed a map... for a little while anyway

Come on guys, any opinions on the map? Detonation for sure? Do you like the view from the yard?

I have no first hand experience with detonation but from what I've seen and heard, det marks are usually smaller and a little more round. Those marks look like a rectangular shaped piece of metal was in the chamber. No opinion on the timing map. I barely understand shit about timing so that doesn't help.

I do like the view from the yard

Map doesn't look that crazy to me... not sure if det. Maybe someone with more det experience will chime in.

I dont remember if you have ever had the head off of this engine. Im thinking that if you havent, this could have happened a long time ago, as this really does not look fresh. All the marks are covered over with what looks to be the same amount of black as the rest of the piston. The marks on the head are the same way.

pilihp2 wrote:I have no first hand experience with detonation but from what I've seen and heard, det marks are usually smaller and a little more round. Those marks look like a rectangular shaped piece of metal was in the chamber. No opinion on the timing map. I barely understand shit about timing so that doesn't help.

Thanks for the impressions though! I'm thinking the same way, the det I've produced is more like what you're describing, small craters and with signs of melting. These are more 'divot-ey' and irregular in shape and depth.

loxxrider wrote:I do like the view from the yard

Map doesn't look that crazy to me... not sure if det. Maybe someone with more det experience will chime in.

Thanks! Wish the longhorns had been up at the fence at that time. They come right up to about 10ft from the shed, sometimes into the yard and are pretty cool animals. Again, thanks for the input, I've been trolling google images looking at various det pictures but, again, not anything I'd call conclusive.

DE80q wrote:I dont remember if you have ever had the head off of this engine. Im thinking that if you havent, this could have happened a long time ago, as this really does not look fresh. All the marks are covered over with what looks to be the same amount of black as the rest of the piston. The marks on the head are the same way.

I have had the head off twice I believe. The last time it was off was before it ran on the CIS/Megasquirt combo and maybe went 5miles on CIS, so it has to be since then, pretty sure I would have noticed that Good point on the carbon/crap buildup though, slowly trying to build a theory I'm happy with so this doesn't remain a mystery after the engine is back together.

Thank you for reading and for the input everyone