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Jim Green's 90q 20vt - 636whp 07k

https://theprojectpad.org/viewtopic.php?t=73

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Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:25 pm
by DDG
audifreakjim wrote:
my2000apb wrote:with regards to the soon to be new found hp, where does the single 044 start to run of of flow?


Figure at 750 hp, I will need 5 injectors running around 850cc/min. That equates to 255 Liters per hour. 034 has the pump rated at 265Lt/Hr @ 55lbs and 255Lt/Hr @ 75lbs

So yes it is right on the limit, but at 600 whp I should still have a little head room.

Bench racing is fun! :P


Big Jim,
It may be a hassle, but run E85, it's worth it!! Your engine will be very happy, run cooler, never knock, your plugs will get cleaned off and you won't have to run water injection.
The other bonus is, your car will smell like a moonshine still!!!

From an SAE paper on different alcohol blends, you will make more power as well:

Thus, with increasing ethanol content, both power and
thermal efficiency increase simultaneously. This effect has
been noted previously on both engine studies [14] and vehicle
studies [15], but while the trend is consistent, it is not fully
understood. One contributing factor to the increased power is
a charge cooling effect, which increases volumetric
efficiency. The average normalized air flow for each of the
fuels across all operating points is shown in Figure 9. The
airflow for E85 increases about 2% compared to RG, and E50
air flow increases about 1.5%. The increased air flow can be
attributed to a charge cooling effect with ethanol due to its
higher latent heat of vaporization (919 kJ/kg for chemically
pure ethanol, and as 350 kJ/kg for typical gasoline[16]). The
mechanism of the charge cooling effect is that when fuel is
sprayed into the intake air charge of an engine, the heat
needed to vaporize the fuel must be extracted, at least
partially, from the air, reducing the specific volume of the
intake charge. This is particularly true in an engine with DI
fueling, where the fuel has less interaction with the hot
engine surfaces in the intake manifold. Since the latent heat
of vaporization is significantly higher for ethanol, it is more
effective at cooling the intake charge than gasoline.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:41 pm
by audifreakjim
Dan, believe me, I would love to run it, but it is just not feasible out here. Many forget, this car used to run on e85 when I lived in Denver, so I am well aware of the benefits. If this thing ever becomes a trailer queen than maybe, but I'd enjoy daily driving this car and going on club drives with it. It's at a very reliable ~480whp right now with a tiny hot side which is really all the power one needs. I'll take it up to the next safe level with this turbo and stay there on pump. Maybe it will only be 525whp, but if I gain 4-500 rpms of spool, than I am happy.

Are you doing Chuck Walla with ACNA? We need to hit the track soon

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:42 pm
by DDG
audifreakjim wrote:Dan, believe me, I would love to run it, but it is just not feasible out here. Many forget, this car used to run on e85 when I lived in Denver, so I am well aware of the benefits. If this thing ever becomes a trailer queen than maybe, but I'd enjoy daily driving this car and going on club drives with it. It's at a very reliable ~480whp right now with a tiny hot side which is really all the power one needs. I'll take it up to the next safe level with this turbo and stay there on pump. Maybe it will only be 525whp, but if I gain 4-500 rpms of spool, than I am happy.

Are you doing Chuck Walla with ACNA? We need to hit the track soon


I hear ya.
I'm lucky in that there's a station in Brentwood 20mi from me, I fill up and then fill 3 5 gal cans for a total of 32 gal, that's good for almost 2 months (I only drive the coupe once a week).
Chuckwalla will still be in the low 100's to hi 90's in early Sept (average is 97°), too hot for me!!!
I'm thinking Speedventures @ Fontana Oct 7th and there's a "star car" track day @ Chuckwalla in Oct as well.
Willow springs might be do-able late Sept. if there's a cool weekend, the high desert temps tend to drop very quickly once the sun gets low.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:04 pm
by pkw
If i did not say it in person already -Jim, the car is great. It is so nice to look around somebody's high hp project car and every where you look, things look solid, all business, and without weakness. really rare. well done. Figured after the icing that is the flare job and paint, it was worth saying again.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:16 pm
by mrmotorhead13
^ What he said... Jim your car is positively an inspiration.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:20 pm
by audifreakjim
Thanks for the support Guys.

Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:58 pm
by audifreakjim
This T4 housing continues to fight me but I have it mostly whipped. I had to tweak my downpipe a bit and now I can't quite get it to seal up perfectly, the flexpipe for the wastegate is fighting me more than it should.

I might have to just build a 3.5" DP... Anyone have thoughts on if there are any gains to be had by going 3.5" DP into a 3" exhaust?

The turbo made it in today after adding 1-2" onto all of the lines, intake and brace. The little things take a lot of time to get this spool valve in here.

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Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:05 am
by glibobbo21
verrry naaaaice

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:11 am
by PRY4SNO
Problem with the 3.5" --> 3" DP/exh transition is if you don't have a perfectly aligned reducer you're creating turbulent airflow and likely adding backpressure with the reduced pipe diameter.

Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:31 am
by loxxrider
audifreakjim wrote:I might have to just build a 3.5" DP... Anyone have thoughts on if there are any gains to be had by going 3.5" DP into a 3" exhaust?



Looking good Jim. As far as power gains, you gain power by reducing your exhaust restriction (pressure drop) right? Well, there is really only one thing that dictates resistance to flow in a pipe and that is frictional losses. These losses are a function of diameter. Lets say you want to flow air at 1000 CFM though a 3 foot section of pipe (reasonable assumptions I think). Changing the pipe from 3" to 3.5" is going to save you approximately 5 Pascals of pressure drop. I don't know what that means in terms of your turbine's efficiency or volumetric efficiency of your engine, but I do know that 5 Pa is pretty much negligible. This doesn't take into account any bends, but still, you get the idea that it isn't going to net you much if you don't do the full system.

PRY4SNO, it doesn't matter if the reducer creates turbulence because the flow through the pipe is already turbulent at the flow rates this car already achieves. What will matter is that that reducer being misaligned will have a bigger loss coefficient than if it weren't.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:55 pm
by audifreakjim
Ya, I think the idea would be to eventually do a 3.5" DP that splits to the existing 3" exhaust and a 2.5" dump out the side that is controlled by a low pressure wg actuator.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:15 pm
by Hank
Chris, run the numbers taking into account a delta 400F from the turbo outlet to the downpipe end. Hit that with a little PV=nRT.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:48 pm
by loxxrider
I just did it with a volume flow rate, so it doesn't matter. If you are saying you want to see what it is at more than 1000 CFM, then give me the number and I'll run it. I gotta go to work for now!

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:14 am
by loxxrider
So it turns out that it still doesn't really matter when you take thermal expansion into account in a STRAIGHT pipe. When bends come into the equation, you run into big head losses and then yes... that 3.5" section may help since it will probably have at least two bends in it. I guess my new 4" dp with two 90's in it does help after all!

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:41 pm
by audifreakjim
Good to know, thanks Chris. I will add it to the whiteboard!

Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:51 pm
by audifreakjim
I took the car into work today and snapped this pic. I am really happy with the final result. There are still some details to iron out like center caps, rear badges and then I'll get some real pics.

The quick spool valve is performing as expected. Slightly better spool than the 5857 and .63 hotside, but the top end is ruthless and is begging for more boost. I need to get the QSV cut in dialed in and then up goes the boost. I got a log today of it building 6 psi of boost and the valve opening at 3000 rpms. That makes for nice 70-85 passing power in 6th gear

Attachment ( 32111 ) : IMG_1353.JPG

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:55 pm
by ChrisAudi80
:thumbsup:

Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:58 pm
by WOMBAT
That thing is unbelievable - just awesome

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:12 pm
by ringbearer
drool 8)

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:37 pm
by 85oceanic
DUDE. That's awesome, you gotta make some video candy for us!

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:16 pm
by loxxrider
Seriously just about perfection in a 90. This is one of those cars that is just photogenic no matter who or what takes the picture and will make for some awesome wallpapers :)

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:21 pm
by mrmotorhead13
Now if it were just Lago....

Seriously though Jim, I don't want to ever be near your car for fear of making drool marks all over it.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:25 pm
by Zerb
the fact that it looks factory, really just makes it all that much more awesome.

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:59 am
by RSCoupe
Jim, the car looks FANTASTIC!
Nice job!

Re: Re: Jim Green's 90q 20vt - summer stage

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:01 am
by Audilard
It's hard to believe that car is 23 years old! Now to make mine look half as good!!
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