Chris' 200 20v Avant - RENNWGN - Blowed Up

[pilihp2]

The CC boxes aren't the same from T44 to C4 from what I Remember though? and I'd imagine the cables and whatnot would be different from box to box. Like going from auto to manual on a b3, you'd need the manual box as well as the controls.

Thats my thought anyways?

[Aktapod]

Dmitri's got the newer style (C4?) CC module in his 200! I'd be interested in finding out what's involved with that swap. Even without functional A/C, I'm about done with the GM unit.

[loxxrider]

Ok now I'm interested...

[k2exoman]

Whoa. That's awesome.

[pilihp2]

Hot Damn.
Probably need all the associated controllers, and probably the heater box/the gadgets retrofitted to the T44 box.
Still don't know for sure if the boxes are the same from c3 to c4.

[loxxrider]

Now we just need to learn to speak Russian so Dmitri can explain it!

[Juizer]

I have a prefacelift b5 cc unit (new style, same as in C4?) and it doesn't fit without major modifications..
Got the unit for a cup of coffey.
The steel plate behind typ44 cc unit is too small for the b5 unit to fit. The wiring is also quite a bit different, but this could be altered I believe.
I thought to do quick swap with wiring mods but found out that this would need hacking the steel plate and gave up.
Maybe Dmitri could help us out?
I believe the last V8 Audis also have the new style cc units so this should be applicable for the 200 also.
This would certainly lose some decades off from grandpa interior.

[loxxrider]

I drove the car for about 50 miles last night in the hills of Ohio and both the cruise control and air conditioning seem to be behaving. I think I mentioned that vacuum line I fixed. I didn't think it would really be the issue, but I guess it was! Hopefully it isn't just the slightly cooler weather or something stupid like that. At one point I thought it wasn't working properly, but I just had the temperature turned up because it was blowing so cold. Sweeeeeeet

The boost gauge is fully installed now with lights and all. I wired it's switched power (for lighting only) to the back of the fog light switch (gray and blue wire for future reference... that is the fog light switch's lighting power wire). I'm happy to report that the gauge matches the stock gauges and switches very well in terms of light output and color! The positioning isn't too bad either compared with the stock gauge locations.



dusk





night




I also finished ordering all the components necessary for wiring up my new sub. Will post pics and impressions as soon as I get a day off.

Here are some cell phone pictures I took at the rig the other evening. Not bad right? Too bad my personal laptop is down because of another fried charger. No PS to touch them up a bit.









And lastly, some observations of the car and it's current condition/my situation with it:

- It needs a rear passenger window regulator. Anyone know where the heck I can get one that isn't el cheapo brand?
- I just realized that although the t-belt was done only 20k ago, that was also about 5 years ago. That will hopefully get done when I go on vacation in late September
- I don't think the 5.25" rear door speakers are going to cut it, even once the sub is installed (even with an 8" sub being able to reach up fairly high in frequency). Front door speakers are going to need to happen for the car to have sufficient midbass!
- The brake pedal makes a funky "clunk" sometimes when I push it. Not sure what that is all about and I can't seem to find the source.
- The gas pedal cover came off before I broke the car. I wonder if there is anywhere I could get one of those?
- If you recall, I couldn't get my rear seats to unfold after I put them down. It turns out it was just the seatbelts keeping it down. I had to gently coax them just the right way into coming out so that I could put the seats up. I'm not sure if I'll have to do that every time I fold the seats down, but that would be annoying.
- I wish I could find a rear hatch rubber seal. I don't think it's leaking unless I spray water at it with the hose, but I still wish it could be new
- When I go over abrupt bumps in the road, something in the steering makes a bit of a click/thump. I kinda almost think it is just the airbag part of the steering wheel flopping around... I don't know, that may take a while to figure out.
- The airbag light is on. Maintenance records state that this is because of a bad clock spring. Will the airbag still operate with the light on? Maybe? I'd like to fix that if possible. Is the clock spring available separately or do I have to buy a new wheel?
- The rubber "seal" that goes just under the hood up front (between hood and grill) finally fell apart while driving. It flapped away on the highway for a while just like the one on my sedan did. I almost bought one of these new on German eBay a few weeks ago, but didn't. Now I kinda wish I did!
- I wish I could find the rubber for the chrome trim in the front of the car... and really for everything on the car. I hate that it is deteriorating and that we can't get it new!
- The electric dump has been fun and satisfying on back roads. I love hearing the back side of the turbo
- The turbo is doing some dentist drill type stuff while at moderate boost levels (10-15 psi). It isn't super loud, but it's enough to make me think at least a little about a bigger turbo lol. I think it will last quite a while this way though to be honest.
- Is there a typical reason why the sunroof wont move, but the motor hums right along? Seems like maybe a cable is broken.
- My ABS defeat switch doesn't light up... not the normal lighting for it or the one that comes on in the switch when it is activated. The one on the dash that indicates ABS is off doesn't come on either. At some point in the car's history some kind of brake pressure sensor was bypassed due to being faulty I guess... I wonder if this would disable that switch?

- I'm going to try to put together a list of common parts which may go bad that I can replace on the side of the road if need be. I'm thinking I need the following so far:

- Blue Audi coolant
- 1 qt oil at a minimum
- alternator belt
- fuel pump relay
- ?? other relays ??
- hall senor? Not sure if this is feasible to do on the side of the road...
- VEMS / stock ECU's at all times to be able to switch between stock ignition and coils if needed. Also, VEMS can run the car if one or the other engine position sensor goes bad
- My typical in-car tool set
- aluminum hydraulic jack

Suggestions welcome

[chaloux]

Motor ingesting aluminum isn't good brah, time fer a bigger turbo :|

[Aktapod]

Looking good! I'm jealous that both the cruise and A/C work They would really make the cross-country trips a lot more comfortable! Also, that cut vent looks especially well-done

- I wish I could find the rubber for the chrome trim in the front of the car... and really for everything on the car. I hate that it is deteriorating and that we can't get it new!

Some folks on a German forum contacted Audi Tradition last year and had them do a reproduction run of the lower rubber strip, now sold here for $$$! I really want one, but it's a bit steep for how low a priority is (for me, at least).

- The airbag light is on. Maintenance records state that this is because of a bad clock spring. Will the airbag still operate with the light on? Maybe? I'd like to fix that if possible. Is the clock spring available separately or do I have to buy a new wheel?

If it is a bad clock spring, I'm pretty sure it's integrated with the wheel, so you'll have to raid the junk yards. However, I do know from personal experience that if any code is stored in the airbag module (even if it's been resolved), the air bag light will remain illuminated until you connect to the module and clear the code(s). Mine was lit for months, simply because I turned the ignition on with the steering wheel removed.

- hall senor? Not sure if this is feasible to do on the side of the road...

Contrary to what the Bentley says, I've found you can remove the dizzy without taking anything else off. You just have to faceplant on the engine and give a it a good bear hug it with a 13mm wrench in hand. Unfortunately, the hall sensor will require some way of removing the retaining pin on the gear, as well as splicing/soldering the new sensor to the old pins. You'd be better off with a spare dizzy, or, better yet, VEMS!

[GTJeff]

Pretty cool that the lower trim strip is available. I called the dealer about it a couple years ago and they said it had been NLA for so long that they don't even have a PN for it anymore.

The window regulators can be removed, taken apart, and cleaned up per the procedure in the Bentley. I did this to both of my inop rear window regs and they have worked fine ever since. Moisture causes some rust inside the motor that seizes them up.

The sunroof emergency lever is probably disengaged. The sunroof motor has a lever that disengages the gear so that you can use an allen key to open or close the sunroof manually.

[loxxrider]

That lower trim strip... that's the one that runs along the top of the bumper? If so, sweet! But I thought it was 3 pieces and wraps around?

I thought so on the clock spring. Good excuse to upgrade to something else I guess? I kinda like the regular wheel though weirdly enough. I have a little dongle I can connect to the car, but I've never tried that on this type of OBD-whatever-it-is. I guess I should try it out!

Sounds like VEMS is the solution to the ignition/engine position sensor dilemma.

Jeff, I will definitely take a closer look at the regulator on that side and the sunroof mechanism before throwing money at it. Good idea Although in my sedan the regulators were so torn up that I don't think they could be fixed. I did see that procedure in the Bentley though, so I'll see if it is feasible.

[loxxrider]

I'm putting together a parts list for an ultimate timing belt job. Let's see what you guys think.

- New cam sprocket (OEM 034109111 @ $64.58)
- New cam sprocket bolt (OEM N90256202 @ 1.05)
- Cam and crank seals (same part numbers OEM 026103085D 2@ $13.07 ea.)
-Timing belt (conti - 054109119A @ $12.14 or OEM 054109119G @ $80.85) I've had a cheap belt shred after not much use... not sure if it was just too tight or a cheap belt...
- Water pump (so many options... Graf 034121004A @ $54.31, OEM 034121004X @ $124.53, or OEM 035121004AX @ $77.65 - the teeth on the 035 one look way off, just like they do on the crank pulley with 035 P/N) I tend to go for genuine parts, but which part number?? Does the X indicate a revision to the part or what? I guess I'll get that one since its the only OEM one.
- Water pump seal (o-ring) - (OEM 035121043 2@ $5.52 - 2 because one might rip while adjusting tension)
- 2 gallons G13 coolant (will that mix with G12 if that is what's already in there? It has blue coolant in it). (G013A8J1G - 2 @ $23.78 ea.)
- All 3 v-belts in ECS v-belt kit by Continental (20V5CABKT @ $ 20.52)
- Thermostat (OEM - 069121113 @ $54.36)
- Thermostat O-ring (OEM - N90136802 @ $3.88)
- Crankshaft screw (stretch bolt) - (Cant find OEM... Febi is the brand I found - N0101432 @ $2.75) **edit** searched the PN online and found the part in Audi Tradition catalog. I'd rather have OEM. What say you?
- New crank damper... maybe... (OEM - 034105251G @ $311.623)
- Crank cog... not sure what to do here. I will definitely put a new one on, but the question is whether to put a hardened one or OEM, and which one in each version? For OEM I found (034105263A @ $81.48 and 035105263C @ $74.29. Looking at pictures of the 035 one, the teeth look way wrong!). Then there is that supertorque one or whatever. Not sure if that requires a different belt than what I have spec'd or what. I would definitely get a hardened crank cog, but weren't people getting them misaligned or something?
- Cam timing chain (OEM 077109120 @ $120.52)
- Valve cover gasket (Victor Reinz 034198025F @ $19.22)
- 7A cams??? (don't think I should do this if using stock ECU)

That should cover it I think... can anyone else think of any other "while-I'm(they're)-in-theres?"

[ChrisAudi80]

Yeah, get an IMS billet conversion on yer terbo.

[loxxrider]

LOL I should know better than to ask for anything but go-fast advice from this group. I mention turbo one time in about 1000 words, and that's all you guys can think of. I love it

[chaloux]

I think Brady put cams in his 200 and they did make more power. But there was also like 1psi more boost? On a stock ECU iirc.

I'd probably do an oem water pump. I dunno about that 035 stuff, seems sketchy.

[mushasho]

- VEMS / stock ECU's at all times to be able to switch between stock ignition and coils if needed. Also, VEMS can run the car if one or the other engine position sensor goes bad

Suggestions welcome

On my car it won't run with missing position sensors... is this cuz its not 3b ?

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[loxxrider]

Good to know Matt. I have some questions for you when you get a chance... related to that old hardened crank cog. Call me if you still have my number.

Ob, not sure... doesn't the AAN have the VR sensors on the flywheel? If so, the engine should be able to start with those only as long as you have the config set for it. You have a 50% chance of it working. Or maybe I'm wrong.

[loxxrider]

See here at the bottom of this page.

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=AudiTrigger%2FCamHALLInverter


In case that page ever goes down, here is what it says.

Operation with failed cam-HALL sensor ("limp-home")

The factory audi cam-HALL sensor is known to break relatively often, especially old (original) sensor in an overheated engine bay, especially the sensor in the distributer (the sensor at the front, as in some engines, seem to fail less often). We've seen small unipolar HALL-sensor [SS443A] hacked into the distributer but we don't know how difficult it is to apply it reliably.

The motronic cannot start with a failed HALL sensor. VEMS can start with failed HALL sensor, appr. 50% of the time (need to crank a few more time if backfires), if:

(with cam-HALL inverter, which is standard now, with trigger_tooth=00) the HALL pin is pulled to ground. In other words, to limp-home to the car-electrician, find the pin in the HALL connector that is the +5V from ECU, and connect the other 2 pins
without cam-HALL inverter (which used to be standard before 2008-06, with trigger_tooth=08) the HALL pin is pulled to +5V (simply disconnect the sensor connector; note that with some luck the HALL sensor will fail with output stuck to +5V or open circuit).
Verifying if my controller has camHALL inverter or not

Note:

If it's sectrig=HALL, than it does not have, by default.
sectrig=auditrigger if motronic55, or EC36 but specifically asked for "audi application or cam-HALL inverter" in order note, has camHALL inverter by default.
But you can easily verify:

If you have camHALL inverter
with input open (remove connector), there should be no spark at all.
you need to pull camHALL input to GND (remove connector, and use small wire or component-leg between signal and GND. Not between 5V and GND please!) so all pulses go through (all pulse, not every second means worse cranking startup sequence, ~limphome mode)
If you do not have camHALL inverter
when pulled to GND, there should be no spark at all.
you can leave camHALL input open so all pulses go through (all pulse, not every second means worse cranking startup sequence, ~limphome mode)

[chaloux]

Same 561 number Chris?

[loxxrider]

Yes

[PRY4SNO]

Parts list looks good... couple thoughts.

-- Now is the time to opt for the billet crank and cam gears. Even new-er cam gears have been known to shear at the key, and that sintered one isn't of the highest quality.

-- Is getting an OEM stretch bolt for the crank really necessary? Unless you're already shipping from AT I don't see the need, as long as what you buy has the same spec.

[loxxrider]

$1.50 just seems cheap for a bolt that important. I agree though, and Febi is a good manufacturer generally. I should have included it in the order of a 27 mm front sway bar Corey H. and I made recently. Darn!

Are you sure the stock cam gear is sintered also? I know the crank cog is, but I'm not so sure about the cam one. I think any issues folks have had with shearing have to do entirely with improper torque procedure for both parts. I'm not sure I really trust some of the billet stuff out there.

For instance, Kevin had a crank cog from Tommi's Billet which was not timed or "clocked" the same way as stock which led to his engine being out of time and not being able to be tensioned properly. I've heard of the aftermarket cam gears shearing too. Not that I think their quality is poor... Again, I blame that on improper installation. Of course, more research is required here... what do you think?

[yodasfro]

I'm putting together a parts list for an ultimate timing belt job. Let's see what you guys think.

That should cover it I think... can anyone else think of any other "while-I'm(they're)-in-theres?"

You've got some 20v pn#'s sprinkled in there.

The cam and crank seals are not the same part. 054115147B crank 068103085E cam recommend dealer only on those.

Water pump Graf 034121004A
OEM are remans and have plastic impellers not necessarily a bad thing 034121004X I recommend new hardware for the water pump.

Idler pulley is missing from your list 069109243B I recommend new hardware for it along with the rear timing cover and lower timing cover.

G11 coolant is blue and you don't want to mix it with anything really. I recommend switching to g13 after thoroughly flushing the system.

Yes to a new crank bolt nothing wrong with the febi bolts I have used them except for the fact they have to come from Europe.

As far as a new cam pulley yes the keyway is sintered yes they fail good idea to have one on hand if you can't afford any down time.
Crank gear same deal, but if you are careful you don't really have anything to worry about I have yet to have to replace one on any of my cars.

Timing chain if your are removing the cams sure. It doesn't need to be oem the aftermarket IWIS brand are under $12 new.

[loxxrider]

Thanks Austin.

I thought that might be the problem (20v parts). The parts look-up I was using must have been a little flawed.

I hate plastic impellers, but I don't necessarily always hear great things about Graf either. Pretty confused as to what to do here... especially when it comes to putting something (water pump or not) in that spot on the revver build!

You're right that the idler pulley is missing from the list. I forgot to put it in there because I already ordered a new OEM one. Thanks!

Hmm, OK I will either switch the coolant or order G11 instead.

I will consider an aftermarket cam pulley then. I feel like a stock new one should do me just fine though for now.

Maybe I'll skip the cam chain, cams, and VC gasket. I believe the VC gasket is new anyway. Let's see how my budget comes along this coming month... I have a trip to Prague for 10 days coming up in September and I am paying for the head work Mr. Gerner just finished up! It's been a rough month. At least the Cayenne is sold!