The Project Pad

The difference is about a half inch of thickness and an inch of width.

I'll think about this...

Trust me when I say, a B4 V6 radiator will not cool the V8. Besides, the inlets and outlets are in wrong location and too small. This is a possible suggestion.

The radiator cores for the V8 and the B4 without the end tanks are almost the same size. The B4 radiator is designed to sit lower. If you can pick up a B4 radiator you can see what I mean.

Of course, the V8 radiator core is a deeper core and a double pass. What I considered before I went copper:
-was using the V8 core since it is pretty close to the same size as the B4
-stripping the top piece off the B4 radiator and attaching it to the top of the V8 radiator. This way you can use the upper mounts from a B4.
-Have end tanks made for the V8, matching the size of the end tanks on the B4, but with your own inlet and outlet hose configuration. You can match the mounting points on the B4 radiator so they work with the stock mounts. This will also get rid of the automatic cooling tube in the passenger side part of the end tank. Lets the coolant flow better.
-Put and over flow tube on the driver's side end tank, so you can run a hose to your stock overflow tank.

This is basically what I did, except my radiator is copper. I use stock B4 mounts and mounting locations. I like being able to put mine in and out very easily. Except for the radiator, all off the self parts. I was able to use the all the stock mounts for the center radiator support, hood, safety latch for the hood, stock B4 hood seal, etc.

The biggest problem with a V8 in a small chassis, is the V8. The V8 acts like a wall behind the radiator. Air flows through, hits the front of the radiator and the air bounces back, slowing down the air wanting to come through the radiator. Cuts down on cooling.

Oh, by the say, whatever configuration you end up with, shroud the radiator, on both sides and the bottom. If you are running an S2 bumper, run the shroud to pick up the air from the lower grill. You will need all the air you can get.

Greg W.

2nd what greg said. its about *airflow*. the v8 acts like a giant brick preventing air from getting around the motor. If I get up the motivation to work on my v8 again my overheat-in-traffic problem would probably be solved by a fender well mounted aux radiator with a fan on the back. the hot air needs a place to go.

*edited after reading above experience w/ v6 radiator

As a note, I'm running a (modified) all aluminum 1.8t radiator moved as far forward as possible to allow airflow between the rad and the motor, with two 12" pusher fans on the front. I have never seen the temp gauge above thermostatic temp, even sitting in traffic on a 90* day. It's an option, but it did require fabricating custom mounts and some welding.

As an expert on setting up a radiator as far forward as is possible, I would for sure mount whatever you use as far forward as you can. I dont know your plans on A/C, but based on how that engine is a heat trap, you cant afford not to. I spent a lot of time getting it right, and I can tell you its worth it. I cut the support on mine and the rad sits about an inch or more further forward than a stock V6 rad. If you want it, I can send you my first version of front cross member so you can see what you can do with it... or Marc can take it for a spin if hes going to revisit his coupe... it will at least give an idea how far forward you can go. You can go through my thread and see the pictures of my trials of said radiator positioning.

And incidentally, I was told that putting louvers in the hood also helped with temps greatly.

Thanks guys, this is all really helpful. Greg, is your radiator replicable? Did you make it or did you order it somewhere?

I'll bet hood louvers would help tremendously - twice the area to move the air.

I'll consider the V8 radiator and the options from summit too.


On another note, I'm now getting a pretty consistent Primary Trigger but am losing my secondary very frequently. I think I'm going to pull the engine and figure out a way to remove the spacer I put in (back here viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1219&start=101)
I may have to shave the 034 Bushing down a little bit or something.

I'll bet that pin just needs to be centered to get the proper trigger signal

Why not just put a longer pin in? That should solve that issue.

Just re-read some old stuff and it looks like Petar (a_CQ lago V8 CQ) used this successfully http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-1-26221-x

DE80q wrote:Why not just put a longer pin in? That should solve that issue.

thats a good idea. Might be the simplest solution

Grillage wrote:Just re-read some old stuff and it looks like Petar (a_CQ lago V8 CQ) used this successfully http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-1-26221-x

That's what I have in my car and without ducting a single fan on the back the fan would cycle on even on the highway. Definitely needs ducting and a fan shroud to work well enough. I had to angle it quite a bit to get a fan to clear on the rear. With my first implementation of a fan on the front, the car overheated.

What fans are you using?

The place I had the radiator made is a small place in Santa Monica. I don't know if they could make another one. They had problems finding end tanks. The end tanks are brass and they were not able fabricate any. I don't know if copper end tanks can be made. This place was not able to make any. I mocked up a B4 radiator, with epoxied on inlet and outlets. Then they made what they could to match it.

I am running a 12 spal fan in the back on the drivers' side, and two A4 AC fans in front.

I don't know if hood louvers would help all that much. The air is still hitting a "brick wall", as Marc put it, after the air goes through the radiator.

If you are serious about a copper radiator, I would talk to these guys. It looks like they make there own end tanks, but don't know for certain.

http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/store/Custom-Radiators-Custom-Radiators/c255_286/p316/Custom-Radiators/product_info.html

Personally, I would make up a radiator using the stock location, with the V8 core, and see how it went. It it still got too hot, then you could would have a mock up off what you would want made in copper.
The cost of a copper radiator is not going to be cheap.

The thermodynamics of copper is so much better than Al, that it is ridiculous. OEM cars, use Al, just because it is so much cheaper.

Greg W.

Grillage wrote:What fans are you using?

Don't remember for sure. Single 16" of some kind, nothing name-brand. I bought a Taurus fan/duct which is the perfect size for that radiator (and known to flow a LOT), but it was too deep and wouldn't fit.
Regardless, it definitely needs ducting no matter what fan is on it since the fan would still cycle at 65mph on the freeway in 70-75F weather so there wasn't enough airflow through it.

Angled to fit the fan on the back:




When I do it all over again in a few months, I'll be doing something similar to Marc's suggestion and have venting through the wheel wells and possibly the hood. I'll need even more cooling capacity since I plan on going turbo 40v. For an N/A car, I'd definitely follow Greg's advice, his setup is slick and works very well in Southwest heat.

Thanks Alex! what size are the inlet and outlets on that radiator?

Had to look it up...definitely took some adapting with different hoses.

Looks like the Griffin website has more specs then Summit:
Griffin High Performance Universal Fit Aluminum Radiator
PART NUMBER: 1-26221-X
For ALL: Ford, Dodge Racer
Overall Size (in): 26x15.50x3
Core Size (in): 21x15.50x2.25
Row Quantity: 2
Tube Size: 1(in)
Radiator Material: Lightweight Aluminum
Transmission Cooler: No
Inlet Location: TR
Outlet Location: BL
Inlet Size: 1.5(in)
Outlet Size: 1.75(in)
Notes: No Options
Description: 26" x 15.50", Top Passenger / Bottom Driver, 2 Rows of 1.00" ClassicCool Tube, CrossFlow

Made some progress yesterday on the triggering issues!

As I pointed out above, I was worried about the spacer I put in behind my Fidanza Flywheel.
With the 034 Bushing in the end of the crankshaft and no spacer, the bushing sat out in front of the flywheel - keeping it from contacting the clutch.
So at the first install, I put the spacer that sat behind the ABH's flexplate behind the flywheel. This pushed the flywheel pin and starter ring about 5mm off the centerline of the trigger sensors.

Yesterday, I pulled everything back apart and removed the spacer, ground down the 034 bushing (and a bit of the engine casing that rubbed the flywheel just a bit (at about 1:30 on the pic below



so now the pin is more visible to the sensor:


I got it all back together last night but waited until this morning to mess with it.

the car fired right up and idled at 1500 rpm!

I am attaching a triggerlog and vemslog because it looks like a little wonky

I realize I had the air intake temp off again when I did that above log. Also, the breathers were not connected.

Here's a video of it running with all that corrected.
https://youtu.be/Em8fuF5fl00

sweet! glad you figured it out

Thanks to you all for the help!

I did a little monkeying today to see what would happen if I actually connected everything. I basically plugged up all the vacuum openings in the intake manifold or connected them to themselves.

Also put the Wideband in the little bit of exhaust flange that I cut off for my exhaust guy to use as a starting point:


So with all this in order I took a vid and saved a log of this...:

https://youtu.be/ACW70GV1isA

Log and triggerlog (from another run following the one I logged) are attached.

Triggerlog looks way better when running than it did yesterday...


Now that I am convinced that any issues with triggers are gone, I'm going to get the exhaust fab started and the cooling underway.

I found a local audi/vw enthusiast who has an exhaust shop around here. He's asked if he can come by and see the car so he can order parts before it shows up at his shop. I'll need to get it so it runs and moves before sending to him. That means I need the engine cooling figured out so that's my next step after hopefully doing the timing belt job this weekend. I have asked Chris at Force 5 to rent his tools so hopefully I can get them before the long weekend.

Good deal.

With everything working reasonably well, I decided to get the timing Belt service taken care of!

First thing I saw upon taking everything apart is that the knucklehead who did this last tensioned the belt improperly. He clearly did it with the cam gears tightened down.
see below for the result:
https://youtu.be/1hbiXFWwhcg

a few pics of the before/after:


BEFORE




DURING

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a radiator. I had hoped I could use the V8's radiator but the outlet hits the snub mount dead center when the radiator is sitting on the V6 cross piece. So I need to use one with a Driver's side outlet

I have a question for those of you running the Summit 26221-x. Is there room to add another 1 1/2 inches of width? there is a slightly wider version of this radiator that Griffin sells - the 26241-x. This is 27.5" wide rather than 26". The B4 V6 radiator that the front end is designed around is about 28" wide and 17" tall so I would think the 27.5" x 16" Griffin should fit in there too.

Also, they make a 26241-x and a 26241-xs. I can't see any difference in the descriptions, anyone know what is different between the two? (EDIT! the XS has more straight Pipe from the outlet - the X is the base model and there are different suffixes that have different features like transmission coolers, #16 inlet and/or outlet, etc)

Or I can step up to a 56241 and get the same size radiator with 1.25" tubes rather than the 1" tubes that the 26221 and 26241 radiators have. Griffin's web site claims it will cool 25% better with larger tubes (http://www.griffinrad.com/tube.php)- anyone have experience with this?

Worked on a few other things today too...

I've been working on making the intake all seem as OEM as possible and I grabbed all the plastic and airbox from a cabriolet and mated it with a mandrel bent 3 1/2" 45° piece of aluminum and it works pretty well with the ABZ intake:



I also spent some time putting the front end on to see if the larger of the two radiators I mentioned above will work. Seems like it will


I think I'll order it tonight and see what happens next. Also likely to go with twin 11" fans