The Project Pad

a4kquattro wrote:s4 shifter box is in, fits *perfect*. I had to remove the studs since the CQ piece has nuts welded to the body on the inside. Still need to slide the tranny back in to see how much clearancing I will need to do for the rods to actuate smoothly tho. My adventures in digging up the 5ktq tranny didn't help though, yoda was correct, the flanges are too big, I need the 4kq variety :curses:

Keep us(or me) posted because I'm only a few steps behind you! Looking to do it right the first time.

8)

I could swear I read somewhere that the 4.2 was supposed to have uneven bore spacing. I just measured out the headgasket to make up the adapter for the flow bench and the measurements dont indicate staggered bores :?

ah, thanks for clearing that up

hey marc, you can use 4kq drive flanges from the trans, and rear diff, and the rear diff of a type89... those all interchange except for the drivers side rear diff flange as it has the gear on it for the locker.

derracuda wrote:hey marc, you can use 4kq drive flanges from the trans, and rear diff, and the rear diff of a type89... those all interchange except for the drivers side rear diff flange as it has the gear on it for the locker.

O-RLY? thanks!

ja rly

a4kquattro wrote:While I was in there I pulled the clutch and flywheel as I'll be installing an OE v8 5 speed flywheel and upgraded clutch as I seem to be on the edge of the spec stage 3

What makes you think so? Are you slipping? I just ordered a 3+ with superclamp option from 034, and Javad said that it should be good for 800 HP or thereabout.

Jonathan wrote:

a4kquattro wrote:While I was in there I pulled the clutch and flywheel as I'll be installing an OE v8 5 speed flywheel and upgraded clutch as I seem to be on the edge of the spec stage 3

What makes you think so? Are you slipping? I just ordered a 3+ with superclamp option from 034, and Javad said that it should be good for 800 HP or thereabout.

because it was starting to slip.

My 3+ was not "superclamp", for whatever that is worth.

After hearing good things about southbend I decided to give them a try and ordered a similar setup to what Janis put on his coupe. Organic "Feramic" clutch disk and high clamp pressure plate rated for 800ft/lbs torque, should be here next week :-D

a4kquattro wrote:After hearing good things about southbend I decided to give them a try and ordered a similar setup to what Janis put on his coupe. Organic "Feramic" clutch disk and high clamp pressure plate rated for 800ft/lbs torque, should be here next week :-D

Now this i gotta hear about. I've been lately wondering about southbend, as they have been suggested/recommended in the wake of all the Spec issues. So where did you get it? How much? etc....

PRA4WX wrote:

a4kquattro wrote:After hearing good things about southbend I decided to give them a try and ordered a similar setup to what Janis put on his coupe. Organic "Feramic" clutch disk and high clamp pressure plate rated for 800ft/lbs torque, should be here next week :-D

Now this i gotta hear about. I've been lately wondering about southbend, as they have been suggested/recommended in the wake of all the Spec issues. So where did you get it? How much? etc....

I bought it through peter noble at tdiparts.com, retail I think is $750.

newt wrote:Thats like ordering a tall coffee and saying the grande coffee next door is more filling.

No you did not just say tall and grande! Too much sunshine eh?

newt wrote:

PRA4WX wrote:Now this i gotta hear about. I've been lately wondering about southbend, as they have been suggested/recommended in the wake of all the Spec issues. So where did you get it? How much? etc....

The only Spec issues I/we've heard of are people overpowering clutches, which isn't really Specs fault, they just needed a different clutch. Nothing manufacturing-wise wrong with the setup they were on.

They're fixing the problem by ordering an extremely different/more aggressive clutch, which was always an option they could have had from the start. Not something that was wrong with the part. Thats like ordering a tall coffee and saying the grande coffee next door is more filling.

FWIW all Marc needed to do to stay with Spec was order a super torque pressure plate. We're running this exact setup on our 650whp A4. Pedal feel is still extremely good, and the clutch is super easy/smooth to drive. Christians coupe is 400whp and holding strong on a standard 3+ with track only duty.

While i appreciate your input and experience, my buddy is a spec dealer and deals in a mostly non audi applications ie f-body's, corvette's, camaro's, etc. I doubt that you've heard of any of their issues. Lack of drivability, failure, chatter. I know most of the issues can be what you've said, not all however are or can.....and i at least find it noteworthy that plenty are fessing up currently with bad experiences(for legitimate or not) with spec products performance....not to mention customer service. Not that i wouldn't still go SPEC. But i will only do so with caution.

i followed all procedures to avoid clutch chatter, and i still got it with my SPEC clutch. yes there's a teeny window of avoiding it, but it's not realistic for daily driving.

This is sour subject for me. My st3 was slipping at 330WTQ (412ftq) SPEC states good to 530TQ and it only had 3600 miles on it no oil leaks or any other contamination warranty was voided because it was over 90 days to be exact I had they product in my car for 94 days. Josh talked me in to upgrade to 3 plus, witch failed at 580FTQ SPEC rates that 630FTQ that clutch had very easy 2000 miles on it, due to new engine brake in period. NO warranty because over 90 days lol car was blown up, clutch sat on a tool box for 6 months. I did deal with them true my friend, ex spec dealer

Ill called spec about the superclamp option when i found out i might be close to near limits on the 3+ , and instead of putting the clutch in and slippin i figured id get it done so i called them up and they said dont was your money the clutch is going to be fine its rated for 630ftq, so after it all went in, im starting to worry.....to ill be really pissed if it does start to slip i, i cut my flywheel and everything so they really not have an excuse plus i will follow all break in procedures

update, almost done with the flow bench test plate.

Started with a big ass chunk of scrap plastic, the idea was to get two useable flowbench plates out of this so I wound up being pretty tight on space







Just gotta add some threaded inserts for the head bolts into the plate and then machine up the sleeve that goes in the bench and I'll be good to get some baseline numbers :woowoo:

derracuda wrote:i followed all procedures to avoid clutch chatter, and i still got it with my SPEC clutch. yes there's a teeny window of avoiding it, but it's not realistic for daily driving.

You have a 6-puck ceramic clutch disc, I'm not aware of a procedure to "prevent clutch chatter" with a 6-puck ceramic, its inherently a chattery design.

A full faced clutch like a 1, 2 or a 3+ are better chattter free designs, combined with a 15lb-30lb flywheel and a sprung hub none of these options should chatter at all.

Also got my new clutch, southbend with the same pressure plate that Janis is using on his coupe but with a different clutch disc. Never seen anything quite like it, apparently a kevlar compound, rated for 750 ft/lbs torque

Awesome Marc, those do look like nice clutches, we're now a dealer so look for a full catalog on our website soon, we'll be putting them through the paces like all our other products :-)

JShadzi wrote:Awesome Marc, those do look like nice clutches, we're now a dealer so look for a full catalog on our website soon, we'll be putting them through the paces like all our other products :-)

Cool

JShadzi wrote:

derracuda wrote:i followed all procedures to avoid clutch chatter, and i still got it with my SPEC clutch. yes there's a teeny window of avoiding it, but it's not realistic for daily driving.

You have a 6-puck ceramic clutch disc, I'm not aware of a procedure to "prevent clutch chatter" with a 6-puck ceramic, its inherently a chattery design.

A full faced clutch like a 1, 2 or a 3+ are better chattter free designs, combined with a 15lb-30lb flywheel and a sprung hub none of these options should chatter at all.

yes, and we discussed this... i asked for your choice for a chatter free clutch with a slight upgrade in holding power... i never specifically asked for a stage 3 6puck and said i would hope it wasn't chattery.....

and i have a 15lb steel FW btw.

Ah the big red pressure plate... I have one of those in my car, quite happy with it so far, hope it works out for you Marc. My Stage 4 South Bend clutch requires much more pedal effort but with that comes higher torque capacity. I have no problems easing my clutch out to roll my sedan under idle power from my garage into my driveway.

I believe one of my co-workers has iirc a TZ South Bend setup on his 04 GLI 1.8T. This weekend he is installing a new friction disc, after 60,000 miles of what I'd consider to be aggressive driving on a lightly tuned car (K03 + Revo, turbo back, upgraded SMIC etc). I've driven his GLI and I didn't notice any slippage but he says it is there... it may not even be his disc but rather a slightly leaky 0A5/02M slave cylinder / TO bearing. I didn't find his clutch to be unusually grabby or obnoxious, even when driven calmly.

I was once told that a kevlar disc will last about five times as long as an organic disc under identical circumstances. I have also been told that the kevlar disc is much less abrasive towards the metal friction surfaces on the pressure plate and flywheel.

derracuda wrote:

JShadzi wrote:yes, and we discussed this... i asked for your choice for a chatter free clutch with a slight upgrade in holding power... i never specifically asked for a stage 3 6puck and said i would hope it wasn't chattery.....

and i have a 15lb steel FW btw.

I don't know Derek, don't remember that conversation, but on a daily basis for years I've been talking people out of 6-puck clutches for this very reason. There really is no procedure to prevent chatter on a 6-puck, the pressure and friction coefficient on each puck is too high to allow smooth engagement.

Marc looks sweet, Dennis asked about your heads yesterday I guess he really like to machine them. Yeah that clutch disk looks funky, but Andy doesn’t waist words, it will not slip, my 3 broken 01A can tel that and now right side axel get snapped of flush.

Today when my co-worker took his gearbox out we found it was his gearbox input shaft seal which was leaking onto the clutch causing the slippage. The wear on the disc is very minimal, if it was not contaminated with oil it would be ok for continued use. The wear on the pressure plate & FW surface were minimal. The machining work was still visible on the pressure plate. My camera phone isn't up to catching that level of detail but I could still see the marks where the pressure plate was machined flat. Andy at South Bend wasn't kidding when he said the wear rate of a kevlar disc is much different than that of an organic disc.

This is what 60k miles looks like with a kevlar disc.
Minimal wear on pressure plate

Minimal wear on flywheel friction surface


Contaminated side facing gearbox

Less contaminated side facing engine.