The Project Pad

Yeah, I see where you are talking about and I do want to add a little fuel there. That area when I am at about 20% throttle runs just a hair above 1 lambda, I was toying around with adding a small amount to the req_fuel first but if I do that I'm rich everywhere else, so I think what I'll do is leave that as is and spend a bit more time tuning that part of the table where I'm at a light accel and get it just under 1. With more throttle it drops under 1 like it should.
See attached/

Fixed my exhaust so my elderly neighbors don't go too crazy. Put in a Magnaflow SS muffler, 3" offset in, dual 2.5" out, 3" Stainless tips offset to match the curve of the bumper. Running over the axles in these cars is a real pain, then to do that bend to the muffler you need almost a 90, then a complete 180. If you're doing this, buy the tightest mandrel you can get. A stainless donut would be best but those are $$$$.
Really like this setup i'm running now. Has a real bark to it but It can be mellow and doesn't drone too much.


[youtube]http://youtu.be/iRwfIvB9yWI[/youtube]

With the positioning of the wastegate on the 034 manifold which marc pointed out isnt ideal, and the size of the stock wastegate I could not control boost down above 4500 or so. Even with a stock spring, or no spring. So I upgraded to the TiAL MV-R 44mm wastegate.
With the flange I made to place this on the manifold the connector pipe from 034 no longer fit, since I didn't buy their "drop in kit".
So I used some thick stainless to make this flange with the supplied V-Band, weld it, then machine it flat again.

Then used some leftover bends and part of the 034 piece for this connector pipe.


Nothing is quick.


so, looks like its time to get a 90 and 45 AN fitting and experiment with a new routing for the oil supply line to the turbo, see if I can get it away from the exhaust manifold.

Nice muffler work and wastegate. Good call on the oil line.

well. I was so proud of myself after a year and a half of working on this project and finally getting it to a state where it drives. Was running and driving great, pulling hard, holding boost around 20 to redline.
Lost oil pressure on the freeway, engine started knocking, shut it down, pulled off and went and got a truck and trailer to tow it home. Not sure what happened yet and have not had a chance to see how bad it is but the engine does not turn over and there is metal in the oil.
SO
if anyone has any thoughts about what to do next for an engine t I'm happy to take input. I want to stick with a 20vt engine
Was thinking about locating a used AAN long block and build it up a little more stout this time, at least with upgraded connecting rods, ARP main and head studs, some head work, upgrade valve train.
My goal is to build an engine that is good for more than a 35R.
Thoughts?

Sucks! May as well go with a 7a block if you're doing rods and pistons.

Mcstiff wrote:Sucks! May as well go with a 7a block if you're doing rods and pistons.

The 7A block would be better? Sorry, when it comes to the strength of the different blocks I'm kind of a Newb.
I had a runner 7A block but I sold it to get parts for the build.

I need to get a good understanding of the cost difference Im looking at to build it "right"
So far here is what i have gathered.

Stock AAN longblock -$500 + $300 freight

I am going to do some looking around and try and figure out what i'm looking at to build the engine up a bit. it gets expensive fast
on top of that I don't have the money , and im struggling to keep going with the project.
I've put everything I had into this car for 1.5 YRS and only had it daily driving and running well for a week. But throughout the whole build I've still had dreams of a built 2.2 or 2.5 engine.

Afterthought wrote:

Mcstiff wrote:Sucks! May as well go with a 7a block if you're doing rods and pistons.

The 7A block would be better? Sorry, when it comes to the strength of the different blocks I'm kind of a Newb.
I had a runner 7A block but I sold it to get parts for the build.

Yeah so here's the deal with the 7a, it's the same basic engine but with cast pistons, different rods (unknown strength difference), and different machining than the 3b/AAN. The 7a bore is 82.5mm vs. 81mm so if your build includes pistons I'd argue that the 7a is a better block to start with (free 7a blocks are fairly common).

Or, just get a solid AAN and don't go over 400whp with a good tune.

Heck, if I were doing pistons and rods, I'd source myself a tall block and do a 2.5 or a rev-happy 2.2.

Sucks about the engine! I'm constantly terrified something like this will happen to me. Good to see you're taking it in stride!

Aktapod wrote:Heck, if I were doing pistons and rods, I'd source myself a tall block and do a 2.5 or a rev-happy 2.2.

Sucks about the engine! I'm constantly terrified something like this will happen to me. Good to see you're taking it in stride!

of course this all happened in the middle of me working 9 nights.
I need to get a chance to finish pulling the engine out and see what the damage is. My block may not be toast, but I drained a bit and did see metallic oil. I would be hesitant to put $$ into the engine if the health of any part of it is unknown.
I am very happy that when I got the engine with the car, since it was in an "unknown" state (unknown mileage, etc) I did not invest any money into the valve train or bottom end until I could verify that it ran.

Rev happy 2.2 would be awesome
There are lots of AAN's out there with just rods running alot more HP than I plan on. But who knows, plans change

That really sucks to hear it went south. As far as im concerned, do rods no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT. Why should you risk the money invested into a new build, or used runner by potentialy venting the block due to an unknown? This kind of fun isnt cheap, and if i had blown up my motor, i may have given up on it long ago. I dont have a disposible income to throw money at engine after engine.

I do know the frustration... my engine is still burning oil like a chimney for the first 15 minutes, even after I have torn it down multiple times. I have however narrowed it down to the exhaust side of the head being the culprit... but that means it has to come off.......AGAIN, for a 5th or 6th time. (I've lost count) I think im going to buy 2 new headgaskets this time and just throw one away for good measure. And, even though I zero balanced and blueprinted the engine, it vibrates like a MF. So the trans comes out and the brandy new clutch with the FW has to go be balanced...again. I should have anticipated that before installation, but I digress.

I am happy with the power levels I got out of my car though. Its not top dog among wolves... but it will blow the doors off of the local ricer dipshits around here. Just under 400 at the wheels is quite fun, and still very Dailey-able if wanted. My advice to you is do a moderate build you can be proud of, have a ton of fun with, and not worry if its going to blow up cause you built it to the hairy edge of its limits. Just enjoy the fruits for your efforts...

Nooo! Well that sucks! I guess I would start with tearing down the motor to assess the damage before deciding on a path forward.

This just sucks man, sorry to hear.

I agree with both Kirk and Dave... take a look inside and see what's going on then get some rods at a minimum.

If you can afford it, do some other things... while you're in there.

Good luck and godspeed.

This is my worst nightmare. Sorry to hear.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

Thanks for the responses guys. Going to finish getting the engine out once I get off of nights, and see whats up, if I am careful and deliberate enough about how i am taking everything apart I should be able to figure out exactly what happened and develop a plan forward.
I know at least what i will start with is
- Remove engine
- Drain and check out the oil
- dissect the filter
- new lines to/from the oil cooler and inspect the cooler, maybe a new cooler. Just because this is something I wanted to do anyways
-Ordered a new autometer pressure gauge and the proper adapter to run an aux gauge off the block since s6 engines dont come equipped for that

I dont have the money for even a new longblock yet, so stroker builds etc are probably out of the question. Will most likely be head studs, rods, bearings, head work, and a few other things either in this engine or a new longblock if need be. If i can keep myself from giving up. This car has tested all of the patience I have and right now i dont even feel like working on it.

Afterthought wrote:Thanks for the responses guys. Going to finish getting the engine out once I get off of nights, and see whats up, if I am careful and deliberate enough about how i am taking everything apart I should be able to figure out exactly what happened and develop a plan forward.
I know at least what i will start with is
- Remove engine
- Drain and check out the oil
- dissect the filter
- new lines to/from the oil cooler and inspect the cooler, maybe a new cooler. Just because this is something I wanted to do anyways
-Ordered a new autometer pressure gauge and the proper adapter to run an aux gauge off the block since s6 engines dont come equipped for that

I dont have the money for even a new longblock yet, so stroker builds etc are probably out of the question. Will most likely be head studs, rods, bearings, head work, and a few other things either in this engine or a new longblock if need be. If i can keep myself from giving up. This car has tested all of the patience I have and right now i dont even feel like working on it.

Pat,

I only can imagine what you went trough, But you can not give up now! Money is always tight.
That would be a bad decision. you spent way to much money and time on this.
Hurry up and open it, find out what caused it. If you need a 7A short block for super cheap, as i said Alex is going back from LA to Seattle early next month and he is taking an engine with him, so im sure an other short block will fit onto his truck.
Chris

Pulled a cam cap and no damage there, so maybe I'm looking at some sort of failure in the bottom end.
Going to start pulling the engine the rest of the way out and see what the deal is.

Wow, thanks for the great project write up.

My son has a 90 90 20V and we recently acquired a complete urS6 to do an AAN build and swap into his 90. We are in the early planning stage and have so much to learn. I hope to meet you and see you around town.

Tom

tdicup wrote:Wow, thanks for the great project write up.

My son has a 90 90 20V and we recently acquired a complete urS6 to do an AAN build and swap into his 90. We are in the early planning stage and have so much to learn. I hope to meet you and see you around town.

Tom

Tom, let me know of any questions you have. How are you planning on doing the swap? I would be happy to show you guys what Ive done and hopefully I can make it easier for you - you can avoid most of the trial and error I did.
These are a few things I learned.

-Either run all 3B/7A accessories (v-Belt), or all AAN. 3B is a much easier set up but the serpentine belt is a lot easier to work with and the AAN IM flows better and doesn't travel right over the turbo/exhaust.

-You can splice the AAN harness into the B3 car, its not easy or well documented but It can be done and I can give you some info that will really help. It takes about 6 terminations to the fusebox to get the engine to start and run, from there youll be tying in aux gauges and dash stuff.

-Wiring sucks

-The AAN does not come with an Oil pressure sender for an aux gauge, only an open/closed switch, so you'll want to get a pressure sender. You need this to tie into the OPM (oil pressure monitoring) system, if you dont have it you will always show low oil pressure.
I went to do this after putting the engine in and the allen plug in the block was stripped, so I had to remove the IM and radiator just to install a sender.

-Honda civic radiator has more passes and more depth, but takes up less space than the stock radiator. With the fan I have on that I have not had any issues with overheating.

-Planning on doing stock fuel injection and tuning?

please dont hesitate to ask me anything.

Pulled the engine tonight. Broke a stud off on the H20 manifold, no other real issues.
popped the head off, no issues there that I can see. no timing issues, No valve issues.
Nothing on top of the pistons, cylinder walls that I can see look good.
Nothing big in the oil pan just lots of microscopic metal shavings, nothing stuck in the sump.
Will get some rods off tomorrow and see what the deal is. Engine wont rotate with a ratchet.

spun bearing and subsequently bent rod, is my bet. or the other way around, bent rod which then beat up on the bearing. if it died quickly after a bent rod you usually dont see that much bearing material if it was the 2nd scenario.

Looks like two spun bearings, and two others that are missing the babbit which is in the oil pan. one is good.
No damage to the main bearings.

#3

Awesome work on the build so far!

Sucks about this latest issue but hopefully the major damage was limited to the bearings and you can fortify the rest as planned

Want an 83mm o-ringed block? Needs to use coated pistons for proper piston to cylinder wall clearance. I was unhappy with the 5-6 thou gap with my 83mm non coated pistons. It's sitting on the shelf.