Sam's 20vt CQ - Red and PNWy

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:08 pm

Keeping at it. Driver's side is basically done. It just needs some minor clean-up on the panel edges and tape lines. Haven't made a ton of progress the past week due to work and the insanely hot weather we've been having...record high temps all week around/over 115F.

I got a new battery and fired the car up yesterday. Fired off and ran nicely after about 5sec of cranking. Going to redo much of the passenger side with the same materials/techniques I learned on the driver's side. Also need to prime and sand all of the trim as well. Hoping to have it ready to go off to paint after the next two weekends, which I think is totally doable.

A20V200 · Post by **A20V200** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:53 pm

Are you still going to try and make Battle Born..? With or without CQ?

All_Euro · Post by **All_Euro** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:12 pm

SEStone wrote:...Going to redo much of the passenger side with the same materials/techniques I learned on the driver's side....

Awesome commitment to quality :beer:

audifreakjim · Post by **audifreakjim** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:41 am

Your best panel will always be your last. You can't redo all of them

looking good though!

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:38 pm

audifreakjim wrote:Your best panel will always be your last. You can't redo all of them looking good though!

but at the same time, nothing feels better than dusting off the last panel and realizing you're done and ready for the color!

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:55 pm

A20V200 wrote:Are you still going to try and make Battle Born..? With or without CQ?

Yup, planning on it. I'm going to spray the bumpers this weekend with flexible primer and sand them. I told the body guy I would have everything ready for him first week of September. As long as the super hot weather and work commitments stay away, I think that is entirely doable. Using good materials (primer and sandpaper) makes the whole process soooooo much more efficient. I'm using SEM primer and Mirka sandpaper now, which are the easiest to work with I've found by far. U-Pol sucks, Matrix is ok (I think most of my issue was spraying it with too small of a nozzle), but this stuff goes on like butter and sands off very easily and consistently.

pkw · Post by **pkw** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:55 am

looks good. shows determination which is the name of the game in bodywork. I paid a pro this time around and I think every day about how my paint is not up to my standards. maybe I could have paid more but that could have gotten me the same paint job for more money.

:mad:

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:59 pm

I got a decent amount done this weekend, but the hot weather and recovering from the week meant I could have done more.

I've spent the last ~4 weeks or so stressed out about a work project that was running a bit behind. It was an epic 997.1 Turbo build, and the hammer was down to get it wrapped up while the owner was available to drive it this season. My techs put in 12 hours days for a week straight in the dog days of Summer and got it cranked out. We got it done, but an issue caused it to be a day later than the customer was available to fly in and drive it home from Phoenix to Park City, Utah, so I 'volunteered' to deliver the car as soon as it was ready. That one really took a lot of convincing...

I intended to leave before noon on Wednesday, as it was supposed to be an 11 hour drive. We had some tuning to finish and a lot of trim to wrap up on the car. After a stop by our detailing shop to get the car spotless, I left the gas station on the way out of Phoenix at 6:50pm. I was piloting a beast...

2007 997 Turbo
3.8L Built Motor - 102mm bore, rods, head studs
EVT775 Kit - 65mm Billet VTG turbos, full bolt on intake/exhaust components, etc.
~650whp, ~650wtq, spool hits like a switch at 3300rpm
Fresh trans w/ Hollinger 60/80 LSD
Short Shifter + Billet Shift Linkage
JRZ RS-Two Dual Adjustable Monotube Dampers
GT3 Adjustable Sway Bars F&R
RSS Control Arms all around, full monoballs, adjustable everything
'Full Retard' Canyon-carver alignment and damper setup
Brembo GT 380mm Brakes F*R
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Tires
Huge sound system by Audio Gallery in LA
Radar/Laser Detection Built In

The owner spared no expense or cut any corners with the build. It's the first 'start stock, end ultimate' build of this caliber I've done, having driven basically the same package on the Imola shop car years ago. Still, that was not nearly well sorted in terms of suspension setup as this started at (years of experience and good support from my JRZ guy), and didn't have that 3.8L engine lighting the wick on the turbos.

Long story short, this turned out to be the most incredible driving experience of my life. I have driven a lot of these cars. The power, speed, and handling are nothing new to me. But most of these drives are maybe 15-20mi at a time on cars that are not as complete as this was. This time, I had 675mi to go, late at night, through the mountains of Arizona, southern Utah, and Northern Utah, with no real traffic to get in my way. On the very windy two lane highways, I hung out wherever possible between 90-100mph, and was able to hammer the car through sweeping corners to tighter switchbacks.

The engine and drivetrain were amazing--that much power with the width of the powerband pretty much lets you do whatever you can dream of. 3rd and 4th gear go by in a heart beat, a second or two of throttle when trying to pass someone puts you easily past 110mph. But the real impressive part was the suspension. The car was running 650/750lb spring rates, which are about four times what stock is and three times what most commercial coilovers available for the car run (Bilstein PSS10, etc.). Even with the damping cranked up, the ride is arguably better than stock, and the way they handle bumps at speed is amazing. Hwy 89 in northern Utah is not a great road. Lots of frost heaves, uneven pavement, damage from washouts/rock falls, etc. Yet at 95-100mph, speeds which would make my lowered Mk5 GTI crash into the bumpstops and skip over bumps, this was supremely planted and stable. Laying hard into the 380mm Brembos to scrub off 20-30mph over a choppy surface would not generate any ABS intervention, something simply impossible with lesser suspension. The JRZ typically shave a couple seconds off laptimes coming from other coilovers, and this is a perfect example of why.

I spent 6 hours hammering up state highways before chilling out on I15 doing the speed limit for a couple hours avoiding troopers. I finally ended the trip at 5:30am after a 100mph run up the highway following the Provo River near the Deer Creek Reservoir. I knocked back one Red Bull and didn't stop to eat on the whole trip...simply fuelled by the adrenaline of the amazing thing I was experiencing. I spent a couple days in Park City, hit up Miller and talked shop with Jerry Tatum of Tatum Racing, saw my friend Andy Lee getting ready for the Pirelli WC race this weekend, and flew back on Friday.

On one hand, it's motivating, as the CQ will be the fastest, most capably-handling car I'll probably drive for a similar length of time on similar roads in the foreseeable future. But it's also somewhat gratifying, though depressing to know that it may be decades or longer before I get an opportunity to do something similar again in such an amazing, well-rounded machine. A McLaren 12C, Gallardo, R8, or 458 would not live up to the same level as this car over that type of use.

Anyways, back to reality and this project. Saturday, I went to my friend Val's and we shot some flexible primer on bumper and trims. He is putting an E46 M3 back together, so I brought the supplies and we used his tools and garage to knock all of our stuff out at once. We sprayed my trim first, and had to sort out the gun and air pressure settings needed to spray the primer smoothly in 105F AZ summer heat. He found some settings, and combined with thinning out the paint a bit, we finally got it to lay down nicely. I started working on some of the trim today, and have some spots we sprayed early on that have some issues (uneven spray, porosity, etc.), but the bumper should turn out better. I just need to spend the time and make the mess to fix these now.

Until next time...

Sam

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:38 am

Sounds like fun!

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:47 pm

Got down to brass tacks with the body shop. Plan was to finish my business with the car this weekend and drop it off this coming Monday. I gave them a bunch of information on the project, and they shot back a number about $1000 above what I was expecting...the number I'd been quoted before apparently was just labor, no materials. After a slow summer and just sinking $1k in maintenance and tires into my DD, it makes this a real stretch on the finances.

I've been fucking with this for over a year now, and want it done and done right, ideally to go play with it and my friends in Las Vegas in five weeks. However, like almost everyone here, I'm not made of money. I have the friends and resources to DIY this, but I've been down that road now and know it is a not-inexpensive and very labor intensive one.

Fuck.

Sam

chaloux · Post by **chaloux** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:06 pm

That Porsche story is great. I've re-read it a few times. I wish I could have done that!

Body work is crazy to me. I don't have the patience to do it, but of all things I'm concerned about, it's down near the bottom. Like there's always something else that could use that money... Sucks. I think the thing is that I just need more money lol

Afterthought · Post by **Afterthought** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:50 pm

In regards to the Porsche that 3.8L must be great. I love the twins and how quick the spool can be. Great to see the use of VGT turbos in cars. I havent done much research but it seems like one could have a really cool set-up. The VGT turbo in my dodge is bad-ass and the exhaust brake is pretty cool too.

Great to see the progress on your project. I want to get my coupe painted like yours I'm just afraid to dissassemble it that far!

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:57 pm

Afterthought wrote:In regards to the Porsche that 3.8L must be great. I love the twins and how quick the spool can be. Great to see the use of VGT turbos in cars. I havent done much research but it seems like one could have a really cool set-up. The VGT turbo in my dodge is bad-ass and the exhaust brake is pretty cool too.

Great to see the progress on your project. I want to get my coupe painted like yours I'm just afraid to dissassemble it that far!

The Porsches are super impressive in their power and how it is delivered. Has to be felt to be believed. That being said, what Hank has done with some of the EFRs and the 07k is really not far off what the dyno shows a Porsche doing. And they're going into these little old Audis that put down power better than even a 911 does. Some, like Jim's and Sean's cars, are sorted enough that the power doesn't overwhelm the chassis. That is pretty fking cool.

I've had some helpful conversations with other people who have been in my shoes. Currently thinking things over and deciding how to get this done. I need to register for BBQ and get a hotel room this weekend.

Sam

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:24 am

I've been working on the passenger door for about a week now, for absolutely no reason other than I suddenly can't seem to properly spray primer. It's going on too thick and I'm getting solvent pope. It's pretty ridiculous and getting annoying now that I'm on my third prime/sand/inspect sequence. This time it looks ok in that regard so I might be over that hump.

I signed up for Battle Born and are ordering the suspension parts I need to finish that job. I'm starting to think about what I need to fix my header and a nagging coolant leak, and see if I want to add my BBK to the list of last minute things to do. We'll see how it pans out, I need to order now to have everything ready once the car is red.

Sam

audifreakjim · Post by **audifreakjim** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:28 am

Full Monty, nice Sam

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:22 pm

I reviewed all the other panels I sanded with this particular type of primer and they all show the same condition I've been fighting. There are tiny bubbles in the primer underneath a hard shell. It is likely caused by the outside coat flasting over before the solvent on the bottom layer of primer has evaporated. This has been killing me trying to sort out, I've tried different brands of paint and being completely anal about my prep work. I finally found it's probably due to the high temperatures here in Phoenix, as the paint flashes off too quickly. Spraying from a gun would allow the mixture of primer and hardener to be changed and slow the paint down.

I've sanded, observed, and painted over this stuff. It sands flat per the guide coat and reflection. The guide coat doesn't absorb into the bubbles. I'm debating just leaving it be and going for it, but not sure if I should risk $800 in materials. The alternative is sanding all the primer off of a good portion of the car, which would suck.

Painting cars is the worst thing ever.

Sam

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:24 am

Lol thanks for reminding me that when doing body work, it's best to just throw money at it and let someone else deal with it! I would imagine that your paint problem is indeed the heat. I would personally just wait and get it *right*.

I too loved the Porsche story. Porsche really do make some great cars. The quality is above and beyond anything else modern (in their price range and below). However, I dare say the quality of our old Audis compete quite well. Of course, there is nothing like the feel a Porsche can give you! I must contest one thing you said though... Do you really think a 458 would not be a better car? I guess it depends what you are using it for. As a GT car, you're right. The 911 Turbos have become essentially GT cars these days! They are so packed full of luxury and speed. For serious driving though, either in the canyons or at the track, I'd say the 458 is damned near unbeatable. I haven't driven the Porsche you're talking about, but I have driven a 458 at the track and dammit that thing is INCREDIBLE. I'm not even sure if I could ever fully master it's capabilities. 560 hp NA in that chassis is PERFECT! <3

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:04 am

The 458 is a car that doesn't really seem at home unless you're going balls out, 10/10ths. The interior sucks, it's built like shit, not refined, and the engine has hair trigger response and is basically useless under 3500rpm. A great performance car, but not something I would look forward to driving every day, and not something I would enjoy taking cross country.

The Mclaren 12C and 650S are an interesting middle ground. In terms of design and engineering, it makes the 458 look like the Flintstone mobile. Some of the technology makes it a better and worse experience than the 458, but it feels like a much more refined and sophisticated car. It uses a carbon fiber tub with aluminum space frames bolted on, and weighs in under 3000lb with low fuel. It also has a screamer of a 3.8L twin turbo V8. 616hp stock, and between that, the weight, and the aero it is a fast car bone stock. 10.5sec@135 1/4mi, mid 6sec 60-130, etc. We built a turbo kit that uses larger Xona Rotor turbos. Current development has it putting down 730whp, and it runs deep into the 9s at 143-145mph. Mid to low 5sec 60-130. Really fun to drive, the noise it makes is pretty awesome. It sounds like a Cosworth DFV F1 engine from the 60s.

The 911 Turbo will always be the king of the practical supercar. On the highest level, they are the most comfortable, easiest to drive, and most reliable super cars out there--by far. But that really sells the performance short on them. The 996 and 997 are capable of incredible performance on the stock motor--650whp/650wtq with a super fat, meaty powerband. The chassis, with the engine in the back and AWD puts it down without breaking a sweat. The 991 drives like it is propelled by a railgun...dramafree 2.5sec 0-60 every. damn. time. All that performance in something that is super docile to drive like any stock block turbo engine, and without terrific amounts of lag either.

The 996 and 997 left something to be desired in terms of handling. Doing all the goodies mentioned on the car above basically completely cure that, and shy of a built motor Z06 on Michelin slicks there isn't much for streetable cars that will hang with one of these in the corners, braking zones, and straight aways. The 991 is superhuman. I didn't exactly hang the tail out on the new Turbo S I spent time in, but it blew me away with how nimble, responsive, and composed it was with anything I could throw at it. I repeatedly thought to myself, 'there is nothing more I could ask from a car than what this is giving me'.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:44 am

I guess I didn't spend enough time in the 458 to care about the interior, but I thought it was pretty damned nice at the time! I definitely think you're right in terms of everyday practicality. The 458 is just such a precise weapon on the track though... I don't think there is a 911 that can really compete with the turn-in/nose feel and such in the 458. You might say there aren't many people who use the 458 for its intended purpose then... but come to south FL and watch as people beat the 300k car around a track every weekend!

The Mclaren's have never really caught my interest. I guess they just seem too... tame. Also, I'd much rather have a Cayman than a 911 to be honest and that's for the same reason I am not too interested in the Mclarens. The Cayman just seems like the true bread and butter car for a company like Porsche. They aren't a supercar company, but 911T and up are damned near supercar money! I think right around 100k (plus or minus 20-30k) is right where Porsche fits in best. If I was going to spend more than that, I'd want it to be something REALLY special (like a used 458).

OK, back to your car. We can discuss further in another thread if you want!

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:39 pm

Fell a little behind on updates, but cliff notes...

Full story sometime later.

Sam

PRY4SNO · Post by **PRY4SNO** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:47 am

Looks great Sam!! Must feel amazing to have a car that's all one colour after all that time.

Which red did you go with?

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:44 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:Looks great Sam!! Must feel amazing to have a car that's all one colour after all that time.

Which red did you go with?

LY3D 'D' code, which is the darkest of the six shades listed. It was the best match for the unsanded trim pieces I brought in, and happened to be like $175 cheaper/gal than the standard color code. I did Matrix Premium Base basecoat and Matrix Euro clear. The clearcoat is rock hard, requiring lots of work to sand/buff after it dried for 1.5wks before we went about color sanding.

Sam

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:51 am

This is a full project post I made on another board. It has the entire project start to finish on it, including BBQ6. Enjoy...

I've owned my '90 Coupe Quattro for around four or five years. It was bought as a replacement for my old 80Q, which had begun to fall apart after years of hard use and a 20vt engine swap. It received the rebuilt motor from that car, along with the standalone EFI, coilover suspension, upgraded brakes, and a host of other goodies. I made it fast but it definitely wasn't pretty. The driver side door and fender were mangled together from the previous owner. A beat up B4 hood was installed, and a tattered fiberglass RS4 bumper made its way for a bare plastic Rieger RS2 replica.

I moved down to Phoenix two years ago, and shortly after out of boredom and wanting to do something, I swapped on a straight driver side door and fender. The fender was pearl white, and the door was faded OEM single stage tornado red. A step up, but the car was now five different colors and that needed to go. Quotes from body shops to repair and respray everything came in at $4-5k, which was just unrealistic given the position I was in at the time (and frankly, still am).

Thankfully, I became very good friends with two people shortly after moving down. I had known Jason for more than 10 years off of the corner-carvers.com message boards, and had met him once prior on a trip to Phoenix years ago. He is an Audi nerd and a very smart guy. He had recently done some major collision repair to the quarter panel on his low mile '99 Mustang Cobra, which turned out to be a better finish than the rest of the car. After getting to know Jason, I got to meet Val and Savannah Ivanitski in the search for Coupe parts. They're a young couple who met racing the Pikes Peak hill climb, with Val running in a 4.2 A4 and Savannah running a 20vt CQ the year prior to meeting them. They had just moved to AZ as well, and sold the COupe so I bought some leftover parts. Val owned an UrQ in need of some rust repair and paint work, so I volunteered to get dirty to learn the process and bond with my new friends.

A couple months later, the UrQ was patched up and had been resprayed in his garage. Between the two of them, they owned the sundry tools needed, and the actual process itself was fairly straight forward to pick up. Prep is important, keeping clean is important, and you can fix the inevitable defects later. Sold! In June 2014, I went to a local auto body store (Space Age Paint in Mesa, AZ...open late 7 days a week!), bought a few sanding blocks and a bunch of sand paper, and went to town.

Based on the UrQ, I went around the car opening up things that seemed questionable. Areas of rust, paint that had flaked off, weird body lines. I knew this car had been repainted before after finding some accident damage.

I immediately found two big areas of filler. One I never would have guessed in front of the drivers rear tire. I found the backside of this panel, and verified that there was probably a skim coat of filler filling a small wave of damage. Sanded down to metal to get rid of any rust and this was good to go.

Untitled by sam stone, on Flickr

The other on the rear pan in the dead center back of the car was going to be a huge pain. The body line always looked funny, and rust had begun to creep out of the top. I found filler after sanding through the paint. And more filler. And more. Finally I got a wire wheel and assaulted the rear of the car, striping down to metal. There was 3/8" of filler covering up a hackjob repair of a big dent. Someone had tried to pound the dent out with a pick, making matters worse as it stretched an easily repairable dent into a big mess of metalworking.