BIG brake options

[scubadave]

so with the cumulative knowledge muscle being flexed in these here parts...of all the different set up's, which one tends to he the best bang for the buck? 993, 996, toureg, others?

while I have finally come up with the best possible turbo combo for my taste, I came to the conclusion while slowing down last year. After decimating that Mustang, my brakes were not adequate and should be the next upgrade on my list to make it a safer law breaker.

I do need to keep it tight enough to fit under 17's, so the touregs are out. that leaves either 993, or 996. What I would like to know is between the two, which will have the best braking for the money, and fit my 17's? And this also assumes with s8 rotors and RS2 brackets that will fit my car with the least modification. I already have OEM S2 hubs, and braided lines.

Yeah, I know. I put this mod off too long, but I'm ready now. I also need to do the RS2 headlights, but I hav'nt come across a set in the junkyard for 30 bucks yet.

[Mcstiff]

I think 996/GT3 calipers can squeeze under 17s (there is a thread on s2forum for putting them on an RS2 under the stock, cup, wheels).

[alxdgr8]

The smaller Cayenne/Toaureg 6iston will fit under 17's (I believe they're the 17z code and are the more common ones as the bigger 18z only came on the Cayenne Turbo and V10 TDI). There is also the later 4piston replacement that also fits under 17's. Keep in mind these are all axial mount and require a different type of adapter than radial mount like the 993tt calipers. Some say this would be easier since the are basically plates but it probably depends on rotor and hub choice.

993tt "Big Reds" (or 928GTS "Big Blacks") are probably the easiest choice since they've been done so many times. They also used to be pretty cheap to get new from Sunset Porsche (you could buy them NEW for less than what people sold them used for), however the supply is dwindling and they might be hard/pricey to source new.

996 GT2/GT3 6-piston calipers are nice (and a lot lighter than the Cayenne/Treg for being 6 pistons) but they're pretty pricey and I don't think they use the same RS2 adapter that 993tt do.

996tt are 4-piston monoblock but I forget how different they are from the standard 996 caliper. I believe these use the same adapter as the GT2/GT3 given you use the 996tt rotor size.

If you want to use your RS2 adapter I think you might be stuck using 993tt Big Red/Black calipers. IIRC all of the new radial monoblocks use a different spacing which requires a different adapter.

[chaloux]

993tt will fit under several 16" wheels so I would think it highly likely they will fit under your 17s.

I have 993tt calipers, rotors, pads, lines, and adapters brackets, but I need a custom bracket for my 4k.

[PRY4SNO]

Nobody's mentioned 986 BoxsterS calipers, which to my recollection displace the same amount of fluid as the G60s but over a larger surface area/more pistons. They fit great with 17s but need a small shim (~3mm) to fit standard rs2 calliper brackets, or custom ones altogether. I've been exceedingly happy with them, and have measured up against some good competition.

[Mcstiff]

Nobody's mentioned 986 BoxsterS calipers, which to my recollection displace the same amount of fluid as the G60s but over a larger surface area/more pistons. They fit great with 17s but need a small shim (~3mm) to fit standard rs2 calliper brackets, or custom ones altogether. I've been exceedingly happy with them, and have measured up against some good competition.

986 S = 996 http://www.audiworld.com/tech/misc42.shtml

[scubadave]

well that's a few good options for sure. I have no problem going used either. I sure wish I had all the different calipers and rotors that would be cool to use on these cars. since I don't work as a Euro tech anymore, that put a stop on availability to explore which sucks. On the other hand, I don't have a stressful job and I still have mad skills to fix or make my own. So its all good in the long run.

[PRY4SNO]

986 S = 996 http://www.audiworld.com/tech/misc42.shtml

I thought they were just the C4S brakes for 911s? Didn't realize they were on all of them up to the turbo/gt cars. Cool!

[SEStone]

986 S = 996 http://www.audiworld.com/tech/misc42.shtml

I thought they were just the C4S brakes for 911s? Didn't realize they were on all of them up to the turbo/gt cars. Cool!

The 996 C4S/996 Turbo/997 Carrera brakes are also 4-piston monobloc calipers, but are considerably larger than the 996 Carrera/Boxster S stuff. They're made for a 330x34mm rotor, have larger pistons, etc.

Sam

[scubadave]

So Sam, you are pretty much the undisputable expert on porsche that I know. I don't nearly have as much experience with them as you do. And on top of that, I don't work on cars as a job anymore, so I have been out of the game for almost 4 years except for a few supplementing side jobs here and there.

I dont necessarily need the biggest, bestiest brakes money can buy, nor can I afford them. your opinion ,what brakes? Find the right calipers, buy them used, or new if they are affordable? then rotors from A8/S8? Then which adapters best priced/ best quality/ best fit?

[audifreakjim]

The regular 996 is probably the best bang for the buck with A8 rotors. The 996t pads are huge and expensive, but regular 996 has pad choices galore.

Rotors
http://www.apikol.com/index.php/oem-rep ... 23x30.html

Brackets I think you use RS2? I don't know for sure. Apikol has what you need if you call them.

[scubadave]

thanks Jim. I will have something installed by the time the car is back together, pending the end of the _____?

[SEStone]

So Sam, you are pretty much the undisputable expert on porsche that I know. I don't nearly have as much experience with them as you do. And on top of that, I don't work on cars as a job anymore, so I have been out of the game for almost 4 years except for a few supplementing side jobs here and there.

I dont necessarily need the biggest, bestiest brakes money can buy, nor can I afford them. your opinion ,what brakes? Find the right calipers, buy them used, or new if they are affordable? then rotors from A8/S8? Then which adapters best priced/ best quality/ best fit?

996/986S with 323x30 rotors seems to be simple, cheap, and effective. If I had to nitpick, the pedal effort is quite high with the G60 master cylinder...good feel, but you have to press hard to get solid bite. Also, while I can't afford any real alternative, the OEM rotors are heavy and horseshit for cooling...most of the width is taken up with solid mass of the rotor face, with a very narrow air gap in between. Being spoiled working with OEM sports car brakes, race cars, and Brembo/Stop Tech stuff all the time, it's obvious to see the OEM Audi rotors are clearly not designed for performance, but what else can we source for $85/ea?

I got my 996TT brakes for free...had to remove them from the car and install some 997TT brakes and they were mine. They use a larger bolt spacing than the plebian grade calipers. The geometry of the caliper is different because of the rotor width they can handle. And in theory, if you run a 30 or 32mm rotor, you have to watch pad wear to keep from damaging the pistons due to overextending them or run shims/extra backing plates to take up the distance. But they have larger pistons, so I'm expecting them to bite harder/feel a bit better than the smaller brakes feel initially.

Waiting to install the 996TT stuff until Hank mails me some brackets

[scubadave]

So Sam, you are pretty much the undisputable expert on porsche that I know. I don't nearly have as much experience with them as you do. And on top of that, I don't work on cars as a job anymore, so I have been out of the game for almost 4 years except for a few supplementing side jobs here and there.

I dont necessarily need the biggest, bestiest brakes money can buy, nor can I afford them. your opinion ,what brakes? Find the right calipers, buy them used, or new if they are affordable? then rotors from A8/S8? Then which adapters best priced/ best quality/ best fit?

996/986S with 323x30 rotors seems to be simple, cheap, and effective. If I had to nitpick, the pedal effort is quite high with the G60 master cylinder...good feel, but you have to press hard to get solid bite. Also, while I can't afford any real alternative, the OEM rotors are heavy and horseshit for cooling...most of the width is taken up with solid mass of the rotor face, with a very narrow air gap in between. Being spoiled working with OEM sports car brakes, race cars, and Brembo/Stop Tech stuff all the time, it's obvious to see the OEM Audi rotors are clearly not designed for performance, but what else can we source for $85/ea?

I got my 996TT brakes for free...had to remove them from the car and install some 997TT brakes and they were mine. They use a larger bolt spacing than the plebian grade calipers. The geometry of the caliper is different because of the rotor width they can handle. And in theory, if you run a 30 or 32mm rotor, you have to watch pad wear to keep from damaging the pistons due to overextending them or run shims/extra backing plates to take up the distance. But they have larger pistons, so I'm expecting them to bite harder/feel a bit better than the smaller brakes feel initially.

Waiting to install the 996TT stuff until Hank mails me some brackets :) :wave:

Thank you sam! :beer:

[audifreakjim]

I also have drawings for Coleman rotors to fit the 996t calipers with my Apikol brackets. Hank and I were going to make some hats to put it all together. I'll get with him and see if we can get something going. It sounds like there might be three people right here who would be interested.

I need to have Coleman make me some rotors for my big brake kit in the A6 anyways.

[varia]

Porsche Boxster front calipers, BIRA bracket, A8 rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Apikol steel braided brake lines

http://quattro4life.com/images/brake/CAM00828.jpg
http://quattro4life.com/images/brake/CAM00830.jpg
http://quattro4life.com/images/brake/16.jpg

[Mcstiff]

I also have drawings for Coleman rotors to fit the 996t calipers with my Apikol brackets. Hank and I were going to make some hats to put it all together. I'll get with him and see if we can get something going. It sounds like there might be three people right here who would be interested.

I need to have Coleman make me some rotors for my big brake kit in the A6 anyways.

Am i wrong to think that you design the hats to fit the caliper and rotor? Get the correct OD, face width, and thickness (driven by caliper) and design the hat for the correct bolt patterns and offset?

[audifreakjim]

Exactly

[scubadave]

What kind of money are the hats and rotors going to command after the design is complete?

[PRY4SNO]

I might be interested if they're compatible with the 986 calipers.

[audifreakjim]

I am planning on going 34mm wide on the rotors, so no way they will fit under 996 or 986 calipers, just 996t. Looking like a 336x34 rotor to fit under my 17" wheels, also going to inquire about making them floating tomorrow. Would love to have these done for Laguna Seca beginning of March.

Not sure what pricing will be or if Hank wants to sell a version of them.

[alxdgr8]

I am planning on going 34mm wide on the rotors, so no way they will fit under 996 or 986 calipers, just 996t. Looking like a 336x34 rotor to fit under my 17" wheels, also going to inquire about making them floating tomorrow. Would love to have these done for Laguna Seca beginning of March.

Not sure what pricing will be or if Hank wants to sell a version of them.

Sweet, I'll need 34mm when I get to putting my 18z Cayenne calipers on. Interested in the specs of the hat as I still have to design adapters to fit them with my weird-offset S2 avant rear hubs that'll be on the front. Not sure if I can make the difference with the mounting (I think you mentioned the avant rears are 10mm different?)

[40v4kq]

Porsche Boxster front calipers, BIRA bracket, A8 rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Apikol steel braided brake lines

http://quattro4life.com/images/brake/CAM00828.jpg
http://quattro4life.com/images/brake/CAM00830.jpg
http://quattro4life.com/images/brake/16.jpg

This is almost the identical setup I have. 986 calipers, BIRA brackets (NLA), custom braided lines. I cant remember the brand of pad but a certain member on here may know

Seemed to work pretty well for my power level. But its not enough for 500WHP as the previous owner learned. My only complaint was that my pedal travel was short and the pedal was a bit on the stiff side. I was using a 200 20VT MC, and want to switch back to a stock size MC to see if that increases the travel a little and makes the pedal less stiff.

[scubadave]

you say stiff as if its a bad thing. is it more like a hard pedal without a lot of assist? when I bled brakes on any and all cars I worked on, I tried to get the pedal as stiff as it would go. which meant I got all the air out and it was optimal. I don't mind stiff at all as its preferred, but a hard pedal feels like non assisted brakes. pedal travel can be adjusted within reason. and the booster can only do so much. I'm not at all skeerd considering my background, and experience having replaced multi-thousands of brakes over my run as a tech.

perhaps there should be a DIY thread to reflect the different options and the exact parts needed to achieve each variant.

I don't have access to etca or alldata to know the truth, but are the A8 and S8 rotors the same, or different dimensions? and what option uses it if its different?

are the apicol brackets pretty much made specific for RS2 only and everybody just runs with that design, or are there other options depending on what caliper and rotor combo?

and I guess if BIRA is nla, what other options are considered quality and worth the money? I did hear that ECS was shit quality and to avoid them like the plague.

its looking more and more like the boxter calipers are the cheapest most effective option worth the money spent. I'm probably going to lean more toward that option considering the parts available to make it happen. It will be far better then the stock brakes no matter how you slice it.

[PRY4SNO]

The Apikol RS2 brackets need a 3mm shim to fit 986 calipers IIRC.

Something I noticed after I pieced together my 986 brakes was that nascar teams use Alcon type K calipers for one practice session and sell them on ebay for $400 or so per corner. Could be a sweet option.