roortube's UrS6 Avant...now playing with Alfas

[Hank]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news Ed, but that turbo will not spool at 3850 rpm on Marc's dyno, or on any other dyno I have ever been on. The dyno plot I posted above and the log I show was taken on the asme day/tune on a Mustang Dyno with 15 second sweeps on the pull through 4th gear. That should emulate a street pull, but it doesn't. I'd be prepared for a graph similar to mine above, as we are sharing 95% of the same components, with the last 5% being very similar mods.

I just went through the same headache with my billet k26s. Dyno says 4000 spool, people freak and want refunds, and then the car gets on the road and is actually spooling closer to 3500 on the street via log and actual life. If you go by the boost chart on the dyno, it is a different story.

[EDIGREG]

I know it's not going to show the same spool as the street... my point for making the comparison was only to show that it should be significantly earlier

[Marc]

Hank is 100% right on the dyno showing a bit later spool than "real life". I can confirm, Rob's RPM calibration on the dyno is right on the money, I checked it three times at varying rpms. If I slow down the pull the spool times do improve. this dyno plot was a 10 second 3rd gear. running a 20 second pull shows rpm about 400rpm earlier. if I do a steady state hold I'll get 27psi on this turbo around 5400. still late, IMO (for whatever reason, again, my guess is related to cam timing, Rob claims its bang on but I'd like to see perhaps 1 tooth advanced and 1 tooth retarded to see the effect while I have my logging hooked up. I'll be able to tell if its making more power just from what load numbers he hits.

[Marc]

Ah, that shows how out of touch I am with this project. I gotta get used to the idea of these cars getting motronic tunes now! See you at Carlisle

yeah, pretty cool you'll be there again this year. see you there!

[Hank]

Rob, are you on a adjustable cam gear and on 7a cams?

Hank

[chaloux]

Haha, didn't mean to be dramatic. It actually spools similarly to dad's without the qsv which is 64/82mm (can't forget stroker effect). But when we had his cam a tooth out and fixed it we saw 1k spool improvement.

[Hank]

Rob, how are you checking top to bottom end top dead zero? I assume the cam marks are lined up? How much did the head and block get decked on the engine building?

Hank

[chaloux]

Rob, get a qsv

You need more suggestions to fix. Lol.

Seriously though when I think about it qsvs are freaking awesome. 3071 spool on a 35+r sized turbo.

[roortube]

I've verified belt timing both by marks on the Pulleys and with an extension on the top of piston 1 while watching for the cam mark. I haven't pulled the valve cover to verify relative cam timing, but got a new gasket and will do that on my next day off. The car uses both 7A cams and stock cam gear.

The block and head were only decked a couple thou, just enough for fresh surfaces on each.

[Hank]

Since I don't drink, maybe i'll be the designated timing checker at Carlisle?

[roortube]

Hey...whachoo sayin? We MAY have consumed some beer while putting this thing together...I would love for you to verify though, just in case my eyes were crossed or something.

In all seriousness, I'm either gonna check finite if bed time goes according to plan, or Wednesday after work.

[Hank]

hehe, I was just sayin i'd be the designated double checker

Hank

[Mcstiff]

I've verified belt timing both by marks on the Pulleys and with an extension on the top of piston 1 while watching for the cam mark. I haven't pulled the valve cover to verify relative cam timing, but got a new gasket and will do that on my next day off. The car uses both 7A cams and stock cam gear.

The block and head were only decked a couple thou, just enough for fresh surfaces on each.

Flywheel mark?

[roortube]

Sean and I installed my Innovate LC1 tonite (thanks bud). It would have gone much faster than it did, but when I removed it from my old S4 I basically grabbed the wires and yanked them free from the car. This meant that we had to rewire the whole thing before installing. Now that it's in and I can actually see what's going on with AFR I feel much more comfortable. Warm up idle fluctuates between 14-16:1, warm idle is 14.2-14.8:1, cruise is about the same. There's a brief lean point of 16:1 on throttle tip in that's quickly recovered, then as boost reaches a few psi it richens up nicely to about 12:1. Full boost is a bit rich in the area of 10.7-11:1.

We ran out of steam around 2:45am and called it a night before pulling the valve cover to verify cam chain timing. I have off tomorrow, and if I finish my house/yard work in time I'll check it. If not, it's gonna have to wait till Friday when I get to Carlisle. I'm beat, so off to bed.

[drwho]

Rob, hank, marc, myself and a couple others verified cam chain and belt timing. next we need to check the flywheel for proper pin placement. Great show thanks again guys

[drwho]

Just the billet flywheel has no reference mark for top dead so May be pulling a flywheel out.

[roortube]

I had the chance on Sat to run a friends dad down a stretch of Mexican highway. He was driving a Ferrari 360 convertible that he just traded up to from a C5 'Vette convertible. We were hanging out at a baby shower grilling while the ladies were down stairs being girly. One of the other guys there was a local Sheriff who had driven his 2013 Boxster. Those two started bench racing, and I offered to run spot while they had it out. I hadn't told them what was going on under hood. We got out to a long open stretch of hwy and lined up 3 abreast at 70mph all in 3rd. The Porsche had been chosen to honk it out. On the 3rd honk we all gunned it. They both got the initial lead...then boost hit. A solid pull through 3red had me at 110 where they had agreed to shut down just ahead of the Ferrari and quite a bit in front of the Porsche. They were both very confused. We did it 2x more with the same result. When we got back to the house they had to see what lay under hood, and although neither were turbo guys they could appreciate the work done. Beers on them that night! No vids unfortunately as this was totally off the cuff, but I'll try to arrange it again if I can.

[chaloux]

lol that's awesome, you sly bastard!

[audifreakjim]

I love it!

[loxxrider]

That is so awesome. I have underestimated the awesomeness of this car because there aren't any pics or vids

[EDIGREG]

nice!! lol their faces had to be priceless

make any progress on the late spool issue?

[vt10vt]

That's awesome Rob! A 360 is a pretty badass kill. Once my car is back up and running we gotta make a trip to 75/80 some weekend you're free.

[roortube]

It was awesome, and yes, the look on their faces was priceless. No progress on late spool yet...its grads cutting season and my yard is 5 acres of nasty hills that I cut with an 18" push mower. Takes all of my car time just keeping up with that. I need a rainy day off work and I'll try retarding the can timing a tooth to see what that does. If it makes a significant improvement I'll have to get back north to EFIx for a retune.

[chaloux]

Hmm. Too much grass bro, hehe.

Marc guaranteed already knows this but fattening up the fuel curve can help spool.

[roortube]

Today I retarded cam timing by a tooth to see what effect that had on spool...it was huge. Hit full boost almost 2000 rpm sooner. The car was turd slow though and felt like it was pulling timing. Any body have thoughts? I may head up to see Marc for a retune but its a haul and time is short now. I don't wanna go if there's not a really good chance that things will improve significantly.