4 FOX SNAKES - Ross' 20vt 4kq

[chaloux]

Awesome, no flooding this morning. I upped the cranking ve to 40 and then 45, takes a while to get fuel. Also this car is crazy at 20psi. Seems to make full boost just after the 4k mark but you don't notice the lag like in an S because of the lightweight, baby! Took a log, will have to tune tonight.

Marc, I think my wideband wanders a bit, it did right from the start for first calibration. Can I minimize that somehow?

[loxxrider]

Awesome, no flooding this morning. I upped the cranking ve to 40 and then 45, takes a while to get fuel. Also this car is crazy at 20psi. Seems to make full boost just after the 4k mark but you don't notice the lag like in an S because of the lightweight, baby! Took a log, will have to tune tonight.

Marc, I think my wideband wanders a bit, it did right from the start for first calibration. Can I minimize that somehow?

What do you mean by wandering? Like huge swings between rich and lean or just a few lambda decimal places? Look at it during calibration. If it is smooth there, then the problem is in your tune.

I bet it is a blast at 20 psi. I imagine my drive of the 3071 urQ on 28-ish psi would have been similar in terms of torque and weight. What an incredibly fun car. Now I'm missing something FAST and turbo!

[chaloux]

It will swing from say .97 to 1.03 while the car is off. And it did it from the first time I hooked it up.

[chaloux]

Cranking ve up to 55 now. Starts way better when hot. I might have to go up to 60.

[Mcstiff]

So the numbers are meaningless but my "ldle" VE cell is 113 and my crank is 180 (prob a touch high).

[chaloux]

Shoot, I enabled prime pulse yesterday to see if it would make a difference and forgot to turn it off. Flooded this morning (but not for a while... only after I was touching the throttle). It's supposed to be cool today so I'll disable it after work and have another go. My poor battery and starter... they've had a tough go. If my setup yesterday is right at least I've got hot starts down decently.

[chaloux]

Alright this is a bit weird. I spent about 25 minutes this morning messing with settings and a charger on the battery and trying to start. Here's what I came up with:

Confirmed that car starts immediately with cam sync disabled but runs like shit. Afterwards it would ALMOST start with cam sync enabled, but not (some residual fuel in the cylinder?).

I tried cam as primary, no triggers at all. I messed around with a bunch of settings in the secondary trigger page until I cam to "hall dirac filtering". When I enabled it the car started immediately. Hmm... And although it idles slightly high, ~1250rpm, it is rock solid. So I blipped the throttle and it revs nicely. Okaaaaay. Turn the car off, take a trigger log, and it fires immediately. Again it runs great after. I haven't DRIVEN it yet, but it seems to run with no load great.

On the VEMS site it says not to use with VR - do they mean not to use it when using a VR sensor, or do they mean not to use it if your secondary trigger is a VR sensor?

Anyway, trigger logs attached as well as a vemslog showing the wandering lambda at idle. I should have taken another log with the car off to show it wandering with no change in conditions/tune but I forgot.

[chaloux]

More

[chaloux]

Confirmed that it runs and drives great with hall dirac filtering on.

[Mcstiff]

It does/can not work with a VR cam sensor the VR crank sensor is not a factor. It's purpose is to filter out noise, you may have some

[chaloux]

Apparently it has enough to seriously fuck my shit up.

Sweet!

[loxxrider]

Nice! At least you don't have to bang your head against the wall about fuel now... As much at least.

[chaloux]

It does/can not work with a VR cam sensor the VR crank sensor is not a factor. It's purpose is to filter out noise, you may have some

oh, and THANK YOU for the help ed. You going to Carlisle? I have many, many beers to bring for people.

[chaloux]

Nice! At least you don't have to bang your head against the wall about fuel now... As much at least.

Dude it fires up perfect, I'll take a video. It feels so good not to have a huge looming problem.

[Mcstiff]

It does/can not work with a VR cam sensor the VR crank sensor is not a factor. It's purpose is to filter out noise, you may have some

oh, and THANK YOU for the help ed. You going to Carlisle? I have many, many beers to bring for people.

No problem happy to help. I think we all have some of the same troubles!

Not making the haul to PA (~25hrs driving time) this year, getting away to Battle Born is a struggle enough. I do have a bunch of stuff in storage in PA, maybe I'll swing through next year with a Ryder

[ralleyquattro]

Also this car is crazy at 20psi. Seems to make full boost just after the 4k mark but you don't notice the lag like in an S because of the lightweight, baby!

I knew you would love it... nothing like typ85 with 20vt.

[chaloux]

Also this car is crazy at 20psi. Seems to make full boost just after the 4k mark but you don't notice the lag like in an S because of the lightweight, baby!

I knew you would love it... nothing like typ85 with 20vt.

Yeah, pretty great. So when do we get Carlisle caravan info Martin? I need to know when and where to be on Friday!


On another note, it seems my compressor wheel is slightly rubbing the housing. There is a little radial shaft play, but no thrust shaft play. So... bad and good. I don't really think it's a big deal but it does go weeooweeeoo, sounds like a tiny dremel tool or something. Until you get into boost, then all you hear is WHOOOOSH. I also noticed a little oil in the intake. I really mean a little, like... a tiny bit. Interesting anyway, not sure where it would come from other than the turbo. Or perhaps it seeped out of the intake hose... everything was REALLY saturated before the rebuild.

My car also officially starts every time. Weehoo. It kind of lurches a bit on and off throttle, I need to adjust the TIP in and out, but I'm not sure where that setting is in VEMS. I'll find it somewhere.

[chaloux]

On another note, it seems my compressor wheel is slightly rubbing the housing. There is a little radial shaft play, but no thrust shaft play. So... bad and good. I don't really think it's a big deal but it does go weeooweeeoo, sounds like a tiny dremel tool or something. Until you get into boost, then all you hear is WHOOOOSH. I also noticed a little oil in the intake. I really mean a little, like... a tiny bit. Interesting anyway, not sure where it would come from other than the turbo. Or perhaps it seeped out of the intake hose... everything was REALLY saturated before the rebuild.

Actually... I guess it is probably not very good if tiny little metal pieces are coming off and into the intake and eventually engine. I'll have to feel it again while cool in the morning to see if I can get the compressor to hit at all around its rotation. I'm pretty sure it's been doing this since the rebuild (for the last two weeks anyway... which is most of the time after the rebuild lol), I cranked the engine over A LOT and verified it was getting oil before the car ran. Hm. I'll have to take the compressor cover off and take a look at the wheel to see where it's rubbing. I'll also maybe take a video of it. If idling it makes no sound, then if I blip the throttle it'll make the noise. At first I thought it was electrical and only recently thought it might be the turbo, then I had a friend outside the car today and he said absolutely coming from the turbo. Hrmph.

[loxxrider]

Maybe it just sounds that way when the blades are chopping thru the air? Sometimes turbos can sound weird at low RPM.

[chaloux]

Videos below. I found the oil restrictor leaking a tiny bit, so I tightened that up. My process:

- check for play while "cold" - radial play but no thrust play
- start engine and warm up, notice oil restrictor weeping a bit. notice turbo doesn't spin at idle (turns easily enough by hand but not as though it's weightless. dino oil perhaps? oil seems nice and clean and thin...)
- try to rev to get noise to come back, it won't
- turn off, tighten oil restrictor and feed setup, check shaft play again - no shaft play


wtf. It also looks like I have some weeping oil somewhere on the turbo side of the engine. Not sure where, there was a drip in the blowoff valve and it looked like the main oil filter housing bolt had a drip, but it might be from somewhere else. If the BOV is having some oil spray out with the excess charge air, I could see it getting kinda all over and misting everything. Which is what that side of the car looked like, a mist sprayed over a bunch of stuff. So if I'm getting oil coming through the turbo seals and have the compressor housing hit and have some shaft play on a turbo with less than 1k on it, what do I do? It was tight when I put the housings on, I felt essentially zero shaft play at all. Not sure what to think about it right now, gonna sit on it and not drive it to church tomorrow. I am thinking I'll have to take the compressor cover off at least and have a look at the damage so far. I also looked at my old video of the car when we first started it up and you could hear the turbo whistle at idle and now it doesn't even rotate at idle. That's weird.

It also seems strange to me that there was no shaft play after idling and revving a bit being warmed up, I'd think that with hotter and less viscous oil it would have MORE.

It also builds and holds boost just like normal, as in awesomely. Most of what I've read says taht if it's hitting it's gonna be messed up and mine doesn't seem to be that way. Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive?

VIDS

cold shaft play clearly visible, as well as how freely the turbo spins. Creaking here is my body on the car. NOT the turbo
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPzI72w8sEw[/youtube]

*long-ish, ~2min* - quick startup (yay!) and no "Dremel" noise like I could hear before. everything sounds pretty normal.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueoKUcFgwk[/youtube]

warmed up "noise" - can't really hear anything because it's just loud in general, but it wasn't making the "dremel" scraping noise anyway.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BWVKqmI4rQ[/youtube]

warmed up, no shaft play. dang thing was hot:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds3yWiMFJME[/youtube]

The noise sounds like this, but 100x NOT AS BAD. It's barely audible in the cabin, not with music on. Just a small tick really...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHsKNdtKE28[/youtube]

[chaloux]

Hmm. Don't think I'll be making it to Carlisle. At least not in the 4k. Kinda bummed right now.

[DuBistS4]

shouldnt the compressor wheel free wheel? Your compressor wheel seems to be binding no?

[DuBistS4]

just youtubed a video of precision turbo dual bb vs a journl bearing turbo and both free wheeled when spun by hand...

[chaloux]

Yeah. Shit sucks

[EDIGREG]

Not good... I would first check to make sure the compressor housing is on there perfectly straight and properly tightened down. If it is a bit crooked, the wheel will not spin freely.

If there is no shaft play then that's really the only thing that could be wrong.