Tig welding

[cuatrokoop]

I had a response all typed up, and I pushed a "hot key" on my keyboard to open a program and it managed to reload FireFox. Fun. Anyway, we do mobile equipment, with sch. 5 pipe (.083" wall) being the norm, with 1/8th sheet through 1/2" plate. The best reasoning for a water cooled is in your last post, the time savings.

[Hank]

I do a ton of this stuff( have 50 similar parts to do next week) of schedule 40 stainless in 5" pipe variety. Consists of a root, 2 fillers and then a cap. My machine will run at 90% DC for 8-10 hours a day, 2-3 days at a time.



Other thing is that most industrial, non aerospace, non high end automotive, are not using gas lenses for shield, which means the cups are not your typical 1" long variety with gas lenses. If you push the arc out 2" like most of the bigger torches are set up to do, you aren't transfering nearly the heat into the torch head as you would with a gas lense setup. With a lot of the heat coming from radiant, having a long cup goes a long way.

Imagine getting into the backside of the collector on this weld with the torches you have there at work...

[Mentosman42]

Just wondering on those hard to reach locations how far can you get the tungsten past your cup? The other day I was fixing my friends a/c condenser(a flare fitting broke of) and he wanted me to just weld the fitting back on. One side of the fitting was between the radiator and tube and I poked the tungsten out quite a bit and just pumped up my CFM and went at it. Cant say that side of the weld looked good but its air tight


We have an old syncrowave 200. Like mid 90's, watercooled and thumb control. Just started TIGing a little while ago(been MIGing since I was little) but do you think it would be better to buy a foot pedal and practice on this machine or is it worth it to pick up an inverter machine? Im not looking for a machine to make a living off of, but I am going to practice until I can be proud of my welds and I will be using it quite a bit.

[Hank]

With good lenses, you can stick out about 2" before oxygen starts making it in. Usually pumping up the CFM is a no-no as well unless you were grossly under flowing. above 20cfm, you will start to be so turbulent that oxygen will get in via venturi at the end of the cup...

Careful planning is the ticket to getting a radial collector like this one to work.

[cuatrokoop]

Hank, our shop run 6 days a week, sometimes 7, and they have been on 10hr days for the past several years with several months each year of 12hr days or more (seriously, some of the guys have ended up with 90hr paychecks multiple weeks in a row). We have almost a dozen welding machines of various types. The electrode holder (cap) on our TIG torches is longer, but the nozzle (what I've been calling a cup) looks similarly short to yours. We don't have spaces quite as tight as a header, but you'd be surprised how much goes into building a fuel truck (these are not your garden variety over-the-road tankers that fill up gas stations or your propane tank, these are specialized for fueling aircraft of all types from GA to military). Not trying to be in a pissing contest, was just trying to figure out the necessity of a water cooled torch when I've had "experts" tell me water cooling isn't necessary for any of the welding we do (from all sizes of tanks to piping to boats to boxes).

[Hank]

Nah, it is all in the name of good discussion. The point I think you are missing is that bigger welding does not mean needing water cooling. Usually it is the opposite. Take a gander at this webpage really quick...

For watercooled torches
http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=13_727_18

For aircooled torches

http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=13_727_20


If you need a 250 amp 100% DC watercooled handle, you can get the small wp20 sized torch. To get that same current capacity on an aircooled torch you are going to have to be torches that are MUCH bigger like the ginormous WP-26 body size. Even then, 250 amps will NOT be 100 duty cycle on AC, but likely in the 60% range.

If you are doing very fine detailed work in small spaces(if your work space requirements require a wp20 torch or smaller) and you need atleast 250 amps at over 75% DC, no aircooled torch is going to get it done. Most field welders(mine included) do not have watercooling for complexity reasons, but it does not mean they are better. My dinky 175 amp inverter suitcase is only rated for 45%DC anyway, so having a 100%DC torch is a little redundant. That said, the aircooled torch on my field torch is significantly larger and handles half the current. If you need big power in a small package, watercooling is the only route. Unlike welding tankers, most automotive welding is fairly tight quarters.

The power leads to the torch can be monster cables that are heavy, non flexible and expensive, but that makes it htat much less comfortable to use on a bench top in tight spaces. Most guys learning to weld in a controlled environment like a garage need all the help they can get. Having a light, comfortable torch with easy cool down and start up is worth the extra money IMO.

[cuatrokoop]

Here's a less complex example of one of our trucks. It's overseas now...

[Hank]

Yeah, I could see welding that up with a big 26 body aircooled torch. Sure most of it is done with a Spool or MiG

[cuatrokoop]

The piping was TIG and MIG/spool on sch10 aluminum. The tank was probably machine, we didn't build that particular tank. The red/white tank on the Freightliner was one we built, it's actually steel (yuck) with epoxy coat inside. It's also RHD. Really goofy to drive, it was converted by a garbage truck builder for us.

[scubadave]

Hank, I think you're exceeding your keyboards duty cycle Do they make water cooled keyboards? Actually there is a lot of good info I need to know.

after following this conversation for a few days and researching the piss outa that everlast welder, I think I may take the plunge and go after the powerpro 256 for an all around kinda unit. I dont like the price of the water box though. I think close to 400 bones is a bit too high for that. I could use some feedback on that. The pop's and I have been wanting to get into a Tig for a while. He just retired so I think he may need to find a hobby...perhaps welding stuff for fun?

[HT Motorsport]

Hank, I think you're exceeding your keyboards duty cycle Do they make water cooled keyboards? Actually there is a lot of good info I need to know.

after following this conversation for a few days and researching the piss outa that everlast welder, I think I may take the plunge and go after the powerpro 256 for an all around kinda unit. I dont like the price of the water box though. I think close to 400 bones is a bit too high for that. I could use some feedback on that. The pop's and I have been wanting to get into a Tig for a while. He just retired so I think he may need to find a hobby...perhaps welding stuff for fun?

LOL

Welding is zen like! TiG is super fun to do just watching the metal
Melt and fuse is fascinating.

$400 for the water cooler setup is cheap really. My miller cooler was close to $700

H

[El Guapo]

I wouldn't hesitate on the EVERLAST, the unit that Haydn used is mine and its great. It was $1500 with the water cooler AND SHIPPING!! I don't recall what the duty cycle is but it is high, higher than the Lincoln or the Miller at the same amperage. I have yet to get the thing to go into any thermal protection mode. The supplied torch is large, I will be buying something soon but the foot pedal is something I have gotten used to as its not bad its just different from what I was used to. Don't waste your time with anything under 200 amps, I have the 225 LX .