Mitzi (1981 Scirocco S) gets a TDI

[Lord_Verminaard]

(x-post from Vortex Scirocco forum)

So I have this little 81 S:


And this engine with funny-looking pistons:


Time to mate the two together.

This project has been a long time coming, I really wish I would have actually "started" this sooner, many of you already knew this was my plan all along, but I never really had the financial resources to get it going. With my new job it is opening up some doors and my very supportive wife Laura has agreed with me that it is time to get this project rolling.

A bit of retrospective on the car- Bought back in May of 2007, sight unseen from an ebay auction, I had the car shipped to Ohio from Seattle. I have never really been able to trace the car's origins as it has changed hands several times, and moved it's way west after being passed around the east coast. I think at one time Daun even had his eyes on it but didn't buy it. Now it's mine and I'm keeping it. A pic about a week after I got it home:


Just in time for Cincy 2007:


The car had an Audi 3A swapped with CIS-E, it never ran that well, so I swapped out the CIS-E for CIS-basic. The car was fun to drive but needed some detail attention, and I had this TDI engine laying around (that was originally slated for my 84 that is now sold) so the decision was made to swap the TDI to the 81.

Engine and trans were yanked and sold back in 2009 and the car was put in storage and there she sits.

So here are some short-term goals for the project:

Engine build- going to extract as much power from the TDI as possible, using all of the tricks that I know with TDI building. Unsure if I am using ECU control or Manual control at this point. Leaning toward ECU currently. Engine build will start very soon.

Trans: 02J with unknown build state. Will possibly be a short-term solution.

Suspension/Brakes: Coils to start, full chassis bracing, 5-lug swap with VR front brakes and 16v rears. 15x7 wheels with the biggest rubber I can fit on 'em.

Rolling by Cincy (June) 2012.

After Cincy 2012, the car will be torn back down, stripped, fully seam welded, panels straightened, body mods done, and fully painted with new seals all around. Other possible performance/traction enhancing mods might also be done at that time.

So here we go. I have to get my sh*t together first, get rid of a few cars, get a few loose ends tied up, and I am off. I am very dedicated to getting this car rolling by next spring. I am sure there will be times when I'll be ready to throw it off a cliff, and those are the times when I'll need the community to kick my ass and keep me going.

Won't be many updates to this thread initially, but starting the build thread makes it official and gives me motivation to get on it. So here we go!

Wish me luck.

Brendan

[a_CQ]

Cool! But what's wrong with the body, looks pretty clean to me??

[Lord_Verminaard]

From 10-15 feet, yep it does, but both front fenders have damage, there has been some "creative" shaving of moldings and marker lights so they need to be fixed, and the whole car has been re-sprayed but it was a pretty poor job. I also really want to straighten out the rockers as they have been bashed in underneath. It took a hit on the passenger side front so the core support and inner fender are pretty banged up too, so I'll probably cut out the front core support (it's welded in unlike A2 and up VW's) and fabricate something stronger, as the front crossmembers like to crack. All of the weatherstrip needs replaced, and the front windshield is pretty much shot too. Plus, Scirocco's are not known to have a very stiff chassis so seam welding is always a good idea.

Nothing that serious really and it's mostly rust free, but all new weatherstrip is $$$ and will probably cost more than the whole paintjob. But that is a ways away, I am focusing on getting the car driving again first.

Brendan

[Highlander]

Looks great!!!

TDI's rock.

Cheers,

Craig Cook

[Sciroccohp]

love diesels and love love love MK1 sciroccos. in other words subscribed.

[PRA4WX]

Yeay! TDI swaps must be in the air! I've been in the planning stages for a couple years, have been waiting on circumstances and am getting close to start the swap now!

What TDI engine are you starting with for your build? More details on "TDI tricks you know."

Love the mk1, its lines are responsible for my other vw body love and my tdi recipient to be, the corrado! Keep up the details as you make progress!

[ralleyquattro]

Tear in my eye... my highschool car... MKI Scirocco... 1900lbs wet.. brilliant little car.

I'll be watching this project with anticipation.

Here is mine back in the early 90s.


So hard now to find them in decent shape.

Cheers

[Dubbinchris]

Great to see you finally giving this car some love. If you need some motivation from time to time LMK and I'll drive up there and put a foot in your ass to get you moving...haha.

Just curious how does one just have a TDI laying around? I'd like to have a TDI just laying around. I have several ideas for one already....using something from my 'fleet'

Good luck man.

[Lord_Verminaard]

Well, I went into debt a few years ago buying an ALH engine and 02J trans and having it shipped to me. Now that I have paid off that credit card, it's time to use it.

As far as the "tricks" go, it is hard to tell at the moment. I actually may end up using a 16v PD engine or even the new 2.0 16v CR engine if I can find one. But if I am sticking with the ALH, I'll probably have 2mm longer rods, shave 2mm off the tops of the pistons, enlarge the combustion bowl in the piston, piston coatings, larger valves, fully ported head, different cam, ARP everything, Turbo will probably be a 2256ve, not ideal but easy to find. Engine management is top-secret. Met a new friend in Finland who is doing something very interesting with the Bosch electronic injection pumps.

That combo is probably good for a conservative 220 hp/400 ft-lbs tq give or take. But I'm not aiming at an exact number, as I still want 50+ MPG out of it and daily-drivable reliability. (even though I won't drive it daily)

The new CR engines are chippable to that power level, sadly. (not legally chippable, but still possible) so it might actually make more sense to start with one at a higher initial cost than building up an ALH. We'll see.

Brendan

[PRA4WX]

But The new CR engines are chippable to that power level, sadly. (not legally chippable, but still possible) so it might actually make more sense to start with one at a higher initial cost than building up an ALH. We'll see.

Brendan[/quote]
I hear that about the CR.....they would fit nicely in my bay too but i'll start with an older engine and maybe someday go that way.

[jbrentd]

Cool project Brendan. The car looks much better in the pics than you describe.

[autoholic]

OMG, MK1 Scirroco TDI, nice! That thing will rip. Friend is doing an ALH/02J in Rabbit now, upgrading from 1.6TD. Should be a ton more power.

[80qtdi]

Very nice, will be a very fun car with all the torque when it gets finished.

I know about slow builds unfortunately :(. I'll be following.

[gtn116]

Nice! If you need a hand, I'm in Sparta. :-) I tried to call you yesterday, I saw you on 71 headed home from work (you were, I was going TO).

[JunkcollectorJ]

nice, I like this one! Great project. I just picked up a tdi for my rabbit. Been hillclimbing with a 1.6td that's pretty much at it's reliable power max, been holding up great for what it is, but I really want to go faster...so TDI it is. Looking forward to watching your progress!

[Lord_Verminaard]

Update! Well, not much of one, but everyone likes to see engines torn apart, yes? Well let's get with it then!

So as stated before, engine with funny pistons:


It's an ALH from a mkIV Jetta, with supposedly 80k-ish miles on it. I actually bought this engine a long ass time ago, maybe back in 2005? Holy hell. Anyway, time to tear it down.



Flipped it over, and lookee what we have. So many similarities to the old 8v engine, yet some significant differences. Notably the chain-driven oil pump, but look at that nice windage tray!



A close up, notice the neat drain tube, that is attached to the main block oil drain, so that the oil drains nicely in the sump instead of splashing all over the crank. I still plan to run a crank scraper in conjunction with this nice windage tray, should provide all the oil control I will ever need.



A look at the bottom end with oil pump and windage tray removed. Pretty standard VW here, big-ass main and rod bolts. These will get replaced with ARP hardware even though they are pretty beefy in stock form.



This is when I noticed something funny. See that main bolt in the lower center of the pic? Yeah, looks like someone had a wrench on it and it slipped when they were removing it. I sure didn't do it. So that means someone was in this block before. uh-oh.



So here is the crank. No discoloration or sludge from excessive miles, so I believe the mileage claim. But a lot of the bearings had signs of flaking, and as you can see the crank has scoring. They are not deep, but almost looks like the bearing "came apart" on the crank. My theory is that someone drove along and dinged the oil pan, drained the oil and ran the crank dry for a few moments. (the oil pan did have a VW parts department inventory sticker on it, most factory installed pans do not) What the mechanic did is beyond me. Either they cracked the engine open and took a look, called it good and put it back together, or they replaced the bearings without checking anything. Dunno. Either way it's not much of a concern with me. The crank isn't damaged so I'll get it checked and polished and get the proper size bearings in and call it good.



Bottom-end partially disassembled. Note the oil squirters.



Nice rods and pistons. Probably not using any of them. Another thing I noticed, the first and second compression ring gaps on every piston were within probably 25 degrees of each other. :frustrated: Dunno if they rotate or if whomever assembled the engine just wasn't paying attention. The VR6 piston rings on the Corrado were the same way. Oh well!



Close-up of the squirters, if anyone cares. Very simple device, basically a banjo-style bolt with a ball and spring inside.



Well, that's it! FYI, bare TDI blocks weigh a LOT more than bare old-school 8v blocks. I grabbed it to pull it off the stand assuming I could just yank it off and set it down, and I very nearly lost it. (and my back) Had to carefully and quickly set it down and re-adjust. Old blocks are not exactly light, but fairly easy to heave around without much effort. Good to know!

And just for fun, a close-up of the VR6 crank from the Corrado, the bearings were PERFECT, I probably should have re-used them. Oh well:


That's after 180,000 miles of having the piss beat out of it. :thumbup: Good stuff!!! The VR crank is also just a few inches longer than the TDI crank, and weighs nearly the same. Journals are much thinner though. Interesting.

So anyway, that's all for now. I need to focus on getting the Corrado engine built, we also might be moving soon- a nice place much closer to Columbus with a bigger heated shop, so that will give me much more time after work and space for projects. Potentially more money too, a lot more expensive rent but substantial savings in fuel. So we will see!

Until next time......

Brendan

[beemercer]

nice update, looking forward to moe

[PRA4WX]

Awesome! Keep it coming!

[quattro v1.0]

I just love these early Scirocco's Definitely on my some-day list

[glibobbo21]

love 06a's mostly for the oil pump location. Buy the tensioner shoe for the chain, its cheap at vw. I could do without the internal wp. The timing belt width is pretty serious on those too!

[audios]

awesome project. i loved my mk1 rocco and looking back at my current project i wish i had went with TDI and not a turbo 16v, but next time right. looking great and cant wait to see it come together

[amd is the best]

A TDI swap into anything is great in my eyes! Awesome project!

[Lord_Verminaard]

Thanks guys, hopefully I will get some movement this year on the project.

Thanks Marc as well for importing the thread.

Brendan

[quattro87]

Brendon, Glad you made it over here and brought such an awesome project. I'm doing a TDI project at the moment, so seeing a TDI project come together is nothing but inspiration for me. A little Scirocco has got to be a fun little car with a relatively modern TDI in it. The mental picture that comes to mind is front tire burning smoke filled cabin type fun. Nice project!

[highlander69]

Nice build.

IMO the ALH is the best of 4 cylinder tdi's. No pump deuse cam problems,no high pressure pump failure
headaches that the CR engines have.

After getting a drive in Matt's S6,ALH conversion (Chaloux) with 4 people in the car, I was impressed.

This is going to be a great build. low weight and lots of torque.

I'll be looking forward to updates.

Cheers,

Craig Cook.